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89 Grove Street, Southampton

 

89 Grove Street, Southampton

Where is Grove Street?

It is in the Chapel area or St. Mary's area of what was the town of Southampton, Hampshire, England.

The Sotonpedia entry is;

Grove Street and Grove Court

Grove Street

Runs south/north from Chapel Road to Bevois Street in St Mary’s. It is part of the traditional road from Hamwic to Northam, though its predecessor, Golden Grove, followed a slightly different course.

Grove Street Cottages

In the 19th century these cottages were situated on the west side of Grove Street, south of Bevois Street.

Grove Court

A 19th century Court in Grove Street, on the west side to the north of James Street.

Hamwic and Hamtun

The Saxon settlement at Southampton was known either as Hamwic or Hamtun (variant spellings include Hamwih, Hamwich and Hamton, Hampton). The former signifies a trading centre, the latter applying to the settlement in its administrative function.

The two names co-existed throughout the Anglo-Saxon period. Hamwic survived as a name until the 11th century. Hamtun survived and evolved into Southampton. The first reference to Southampton was in the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle of 980 but the name did not become common until the 12th century. Hamtun was an alternative name for the town until the 17th century.

Grove Street can be found on an 1870 OS Map held and hosted by Southampton City Council .

OS Map 1870 Southampton Grove Street

Click the map to go to the source.

OS Map 1870 Southampton Grove Street south end

 

OS Map 25 Grove Street

Another Ordnance Survey Map, held and hosted by the National Library of Scotland. The marker may be the location of 89 and 90 Grove Street, and the plot measurement is about the same as on the lease. I recall being told that 89 Grove Street backed on to the railway. The pattern of the houses footprint suggest that it maybe this pair of houses.

Almshouses Norfolk Cottages Grove Street

On the map, nearly opposite the marker, you can see the Almshouses. Sotonopedia has an article containing information about them, of which there is an extract below, together with one of the two photos. 

Grove Street Almshouses

In 1830 the St Mary’s site was acquired by the Poor Law Guardians for the new workhouse. In return the Guardians supplied a site in Grove Street on which seven new almshouses were built in 1831 (image 1 below). On the wall between numbers 1 and 2 was set a stone tablet which had originally been placed on the front of Butler’s Almshouses in 1565 (image 2 below). The stone tablet had a carving of three roses, the date 1565 and initials R.B. (Richard Butler). These almshouses, later renamed Norfolk Cottages, survived until c.1960.


WW2 Bomb damage

Extract of list of 'Photographs of War Damaged Properties' from The National Archives

60 a-c 13, 14 & 15 Grove Street, 1947.
61 a-b 17 Grove Street, (front and rear), 1947.
62 a-c 20-25 Grove Street (front and rear), 1948.
63 a-b 40½ Grove Street, 1948.
64 a-c 54, 55 & 56 Grove Street, 1948.
65 a-d 82-87 Grove Street (front and rear), 1947.
66 a-b "Royal Exchange" P.H. Grove Street, 1948.

OS Map Southampton Chapel WW2 Bombs

 The above map is current with superimposed WW2 recorded bomb sites. The area was heavily bombed during WW2. There is still a Grove Street according to this map, but not as long as it used to be. The whole are has been redeveloped. I recall my Mum telling me about the crater at the end of the road, by the level crossing. I suspect that was the one shown between the A and D of the label Chapel Road on the map. Walking with her Mum, past the bomb crater in wellies, then changing into school shoes, for the rest of the short walk to school.

OS Map 1870 Southampton Grove Street WW2 Bombs

 Back to the 1870 map of Grove Street, but with the WW2 bomb sites layer added. Three in this section of Grove Street, all the other side of the road from no. 89. The Royal Exchange Public House, mentioned in the list of photographs of bomb damage properties, is circled in blue. The list appears to have more instances than the map.

Grove Road

 

A photo posted in Flickr by Robert Fish reproduced here with his kind permission.

Robert's comment plus one other

Its actually in Grove Street, just off Chapel Road, looking at OS maps these were pulled down between 1968 and 1971. In the last few months there has been an Archaeological dig within Southampton City College (in the area of these houses) and they have turned up a number of Middle Saxon Houses (3 at the last count) which have not been damaged by ploughing. The site lies near the southern edge of the Middle Saxon town of Hamwic. Photo's from the dig, and of the very deep brick build drainage pipes will be posted soon in my photo stream.

Pete Lamb

The houses were demolished too make way for the Itchen Bridge (ha ha). The final design of the bridge went no-where near here.
A lot of TITANIC crew lived in these closely knit roads.

 

Table constructed by reference to Encyclopedia Titanica

Some of the Titanic Crew with home address in Grove Street, generally signed on 6/4/12 at Southampton
NameAgeAddressFrom shipJob
George Phillips 27 5 Grove Street Olympic Greaser
W. Light 47 25 Grove Street Olympic Fireman
Frank Terrell  26 5 Grove Street  Oceanic 2nd Class Steward
 A. Manly  23 5 Grove Street  Oceanic 3rd Class Steward
 Albert Haines  30 53 or 62 Grove Street  Olympic  Boatswain Mate
 William Henry Dyer  33 68 Grove Street (1911 Census)  Olympic  1st Class Steward
         
 Walter Hurst  27 13 Chapel Road  Olympic Fireman
 William Mintram  46 15 Chapel Road  Oceanic Fireman

 

The table is not necessarily a complete list of those with Grove Street connections. Some of the people perished in the tragedy, and some survived, but one missed the sailing, having previously signed on to the crew.

I have added Walter Hurst and William Mintram to the table as Chapel Road is at the end of Grove Street, but more importantly, because they are both in my Family Tree and there is an article about them and a murder.

Apparently about 500 of the crew of the Titanic were Sotonians and 1/3 of all the passengers and crew who were lost on that fateful day of 15 April 1912 were from Southampton.

 

Lease

Alfred James Frampton was born about 1841 in Southampton, Hampshire, England to parents George and Amelia.

Our story does not start there however.

Looking through some old documents at home I found a deeds envelope with 'Deeds relating to Nos 89 & 90 Grove Street Southampton belonging to Mr E N Collins'. What a find, as you can see below.

Deeds envelope 89 90 Grove Street

 

 

Lease of 2 messuages and premises known as Nos. 89 and 90 Grove Street Chapel Southampton.

pdfLease 89-90 Grove Street 1906524.34 KB17/03/2022, 18:32

 Click the link to read the full lease.

 lease 89 90 Grove Street 1906 p1 Scan 17 Mar 2022 2

 

Lease 89 90 Grove Street 1906 Plan

 The next document is the consent given by the Lessor, Scrase's Brewery Limited to the Executors of the Will of Mr. Alfred James Frampton, Messrs, Frank Kimber and George Willis.

pdfConsent 89 Grove Street 1915 Typewritten376.54 KB18/03/2022, 18:42

Below is the resultant Assignment to Edward Nash Collins, of 39 Grove Street Southampton

pdfIndenture 89 Grove Street 1915 Handwritten684.29 KB18/03/2022, 17:46

 Indenture 89 Grove Street 1915 p1

 Just admire the penmanship. The scan does not do it full justice.

Indenture 89 Grove Street 1915 p2

 To read the full document click the link to the pdf file above.

Two more things before we leave this document, the first, a better image of the stamp with a value of one shilling and six pence, and the embossed date stamp indicating March 1915. Stamp duty at one shilling and six pence, which is only 71/2p when converted, plus inflation.

 

Indenture 89 Grove Street 1915 p2 Stamp duty

Secondly, a close up of the signatures of the parties, including of course Edward Nash Collins, of No 39 Grove Street Southampton, a bricklayer.

Indenture 89 Grove Street 1915 signatures

 

Scrase's Brewery

This brewery, also known as the Star Brewery, formerly stood on the west side of Back-of-the-Walls at the east end of the Star Hotel yard. The business was started by Alderman Scrace in the mid 19th century. In 1890 the business was extended through purchase of the Wheatsheaf Brewery at the rear of the Wheatsheaf Hotel in Bridge Street. The brewery was taken over by Strong’s of Romsey in the 1920s.

Scrase's Brewery Ltd, Star Brewery, Upper Back of Walls, 29 High Street, Southampton, Hampshire.

Founded 1829.

Registered November 1889 to acquire Henry Scrase.

Acquired by Strong & Co Ltd. 1927 with over 97 houses and brewing ceased 1947.

Maltings were at the rear.

List of Scrase's owned pubs in Grove Street.

Apollo Inn, Grove Street, Southampton (ex- Henry Welsh, Wheatsheaf Brewery, Southampton)

Southampton Transport Workers’ Social Club, Grove Street, Southampton.

Star Inn, Grove Street, Southampton (closed 1905)

Rink Tavern, formerly Cabman’s Arms, Grove Street, Southampton was purchased in 1892 from Henry John Panton & Co, Wareham, Dorset.

 

OS Map 1870 Southampton Star Brewery

 The site of Scrase's  Star Brewery, washed in blue, together with Wheatsheaf Brewery washed in orange. 

Below, approximately 800 yards between Star Brewery and 89 Grove Street

OS Map 25 Star Brewery to Grove Street

  OS Map 25 Star Brewery to Grove Street Zoom

Zoomed in on the two breweries, the Star and the Wheatsheaf.

Apollo

OS Map 1870 Southampton Grove Street Apollo

At the Chapel Road end of Grove Street there is an Apollo Inn, on 13 Chapel Road, circled in blue. Apollo Tap and Brewery circled in green. An early thought was that the Brewery was the one referred to in the original lease of 1906, but that is not the case.

Note the Deanery National School at the bottom of the map, the level crossing, and by reference to the WW2 Bomb Map, the crater between the two. The crater could have been closer to the road junction or Apollo Inn.

 

 

Census

Edward Collins was resident at 89 Grove Street for the 1911 Census. This was to be expected as he was referred to as 'the present tenants of the said property under the Lease. hereinafter mentioned to Mr. Edward Nash Collins of No. · 89, Grove Street, Saint Marys, Southampton of the hereditaments and premises comprised in an Indenture of Lease dated the 15th. day of December One thousand nine hundred and six and made between Scrase's Brewery Limited of the one part and the said Alfred James Frampton' within the consent document above.

Census 1911 89 Grove Street

Edward Collins is living at 89 Grove Street with his family

Census 1911 - Occupants of 89 Grove Street, Southampton
Name and Surname Relation to Head Condition Age last birthday Estimated Birth Year Gender Years married Children born Children still alive Children who have died Occupation Employer / worker Working at home Where Born
Edward Collins Head Widow 54 1857 Male         House Carpenter Worker   St Mary's, Hampshire, England
Alice Collins
Wife
Single 37 1874 Female 16 3 3 0       St Mary's, Hampshire, England
Elsie Collins
Daughter
Single 15 1896 Female               St James
Letitia Collins
Daughter
Single 13 1898 Female               St James
Kathrine Collins Daughter Single  8 1903 Female               St Mary's
Jessie Collins
Daughter
Single 22 1889 Female               St James

 Jessie Collins was a daughter to Edward by a previous marriage, and therefore not counted in Alice's children data.

 

The 1901 Census, Parish of St Mary's, District 35

Census 1901 89 Grove Street

Does this change things? Zoom in for a closer look.

Census 1901 89 Grove Street zoom

89 Grove Street is the Star Inn in 1901.

According to the List of Scrase's owned pubs in Grove Street above, the Star in was closed in 1905. This makes sense with the lease of Nos. 89 and 90 Grove Street Chapel Southampton to Alfred James Frampton in 1906.

Census 1901 - Occupants of 89 Grove Street, Southampton
Name and Surname Relation to Head Condition Age last birthday Estimated Birth Year Gender Occupation Employer / worker Working at home Where Born
Honor Barnard Head Widow 54 1847 Female Publican Own account At home Redbridge, Hampshire, England
Thomas Hurding Son Single 26 1875 Male Railway Engine Stoker Worker   Southampton, Hampshire, England
Henry Hurding Son Single 24 1877 Male Railway Engine Stoker Worker   Southampton, Hampshire, England
Fred Ritchie Boarder Single 57 1844 Male Dock Labourer Worker   St Helens, Jersey, Channel Islands
                   

 

The 1891 Census, Parish of St Mary's, District 35

There is mention of a School House near 65 Grove Street.

Census 1891 89 Grove Street

The Census states 87 Bevois St at the top of the page, which would make 89, Bevois Street as well. However, Bevois Street is to the north of Grove Street and was the first part of the District 35 walk. That part of the walk covers Bevois Street to the Railway Gates on both sides, nos. 1 to 49, odds and evens, then a gap followed by 92 to 143. Then Grove Street. The page above is flanked by Grove Street entries. District 37 has Bevois Street East of the Railway Gates. Nos 51 to 90, odds and evens, including 89, in District 37. I assume the building of the railway resulted in the demolition of nos. 50 and 91. It had a different family in 89 Bevois Street in District 37, I therefore conclude that the above 89 Bevois Street is in fact 89 Grove Street, the Star Inn from the 1901 Census, with the same family in both 1901 and 1891,

 Census 1891 89 Grove Street zoom

 

 

Census 1891 - Occupants of 89 Grove Street, Southampton
Name and Surname Relation to Head Condition Age last birthday Estimated Birth Year Gender Occupation Employer / worker Neither Where Born
H Barnard Head Widow 43 1848 Female Licensed Victualler Employer   Southampton, Hampshire, England
Tom Barnard Son Single 16 1875 Male Engine cleaner Worker   Southampton, Hampshire, England
Henry Barnard
Son Single 15 1876 Male Errand boy     Southampton, Hampshire, England
Jane Barnard Daughter Single 11 1880 Female School girl     Southampton, Hampshire, England
Robert Barnard  Son  Single  9  1882 Male  Scholar      Southampton, Hampshire, England

I suspect this is the same family as in the 1901 Census, but the surnames of Tom and Henry don't match.

Census 1881 Honor Barnard

On the 1881 Census Honor Barnard has a husband, Thomas Barnard, and they are living with their family at 55 Bevois Street, St Mary, Southampton, Hampshire, England, Thomas Harding, 6 and Henry Harding 4, are step-sons of Thomas Barnard, and Elizabeth Harding 7 is his step-daughter. Sarah 15, Francis 13, and Charlotte 12 are his daughters, and Thomas, 14 his son, presumably from a previous marriage. That therefore makes sense with the 1901 Census having different surnames. Although, I can fully see why the transcriber went with Hurding instead of Harding as the 1881 image clearly shows.

According to the 1911 Census Honor Barnard was a Boarding House Keeper living at 34 Terminus Terrace, St Mary's, Southampton, Hampshire, England. She was living with two of her sons, Henry Hurding 34 and Robert Ernest Barnard 29.

Honor Hurding married Thomas Barnard in 1882 according to the marriage register, a year after they stated they were married on the 1881 Census. Honor Barnard died in 1927 at the age of 80, in Southampton. Was the surname Harding or Hurding. It is clearly both according to the Census papers, but the marriage register, if the same people, has Hurding. 

A Honor Anteney married a Thomas Hurding on 10 March 1872, when she was 25 at Millbrook, Hampshire. Thomas Hurding died at the young age of 31 in 1878 leaving Mrs Honor Hurding a widow, able to marry Thomas Barnard in 1881/82.

 

The 1881 Census, Parish of St Mary's, District 23.

There is an enumerators note regarding the health of this District.

'The Health of the inhabitants of my district appeared to be extremely good. Only one slight case of disease among children having been met with, and that was chicken pox.'

For the 1881 Census the enumerator's walk starts at 1 Grove Street. Nos. are both odd and even. Between nos. 25 and 26 are the Alms Houses shown on the map on the West side of Grove Street. 

Goddards Court, 1 to 6, is between nos. 42 and 43 Grove Street.

Grove Street School house is recorded between nos. 69 and 70.

 New Court, 1 to 6, is between nos. 87 and 88 Grove Street.

 Grove Street ends at no. 96 and the Census Record moves on to Church Street. I have yet to identify the location of Church Street as the roads at either end of Grove Street are Bevois Street to the North and Chapel Road to the South. Only one road off Grove Street and that is James Street. After Church Street in the Census Record is Western Terrace, Chapel Road. Which is at the southern end of Grove Street.

No 89 Grove Street has a family of three in residence.

Census 1881 89 Grove Street

 

 

Census 1881 - Occupants of 89 Grove Street, Southampton
Name and Surname Relation to Head Condition Age last birthday Estimated Birth Year Gender Occupation Where Born
 Alfred H. T. Reynolds Head Married 31 1850 Male Baker Nursling, Hampshire, England
 Ellen Rowenna Reynolds Wife Married 31 1850 Female   Romsey, Hampshire, England
 Thomas Henry Reynolds Son Single 6 1876 Male Scholar South Stoneham, Hampshire, England
               
               

 An aside. Nothing to do with 89 Grove Street other than the close proximity.

Census 1881 89 Grove Street Ann Pomeroy

Ann Pomeroy residing at 4 New Court, just a few doors away from 89 Grove Street. Ann, a widow, 55 (1826), from Bridport, Dorset, living with her 17 year old (1864) son born in Freemantle, Hampshire, which is now a suburb of Southampton.

A Pomeroy married a Collins, at a later time, but that is a different story.

Courts off Grove Street.

Goddard's Court, a 19th century court at the north end of Grove Street adjoining James Street and Bevois Street.

New Court, a 19th century court in Grove Street, Chapel, on the east side near the south end of the street.

James's Court, a 19th century court off the east side of Grove Street, opposite the passage to Golden Grove.

Tucker's Court, a 19th century court in Grove Street. Appears to be between James Street and Bevois Street, on the West side of Grove Street form the OS 1870 Map.

 

The 1871 Census, Parish of St Mary's, District 20.

Census 1871 89 Grove Street

 

 

Census 1871 - Occupants of 89 Grove Street, Southampton
Name and Surname Relation to Head Condition Age last birthday Estimated Birth Year Gender Occupation Where Born
Robert Abree Head Married 54 1817 Male Baker & beer retailer Southampton, Hampshire, England
Martha Abree Wife Married 37 1834 Female   Southampton, Hampshire, England
James E Hiscock Son-in-law Single 18 1853 Male Paper hanger Southampton, Hampshire, England
 George F Hiscock  Son-in-law Single  12  1859 Male Scholar Southampton, Hampshire, England
 Lizzie M Hiscock  Daughter-in-law Single  11  1860 Female Scholar  Southampton, Hampshire, England

Robert Abree is also listed in in 1878 White´s History, Gazetteer and Directory, as a Baker and Beerhouse at 89 Grove Street, Southampton. He also appears as a voter in the Election of 12th July 1865, residing in Grove Street. Martha Abree, nee Ingram was previously married to Edward William Hiscock on 14 Dec 1851 at Southampton, Hampshire, England. They had four known children together, with three surviving in the 1871 Census. Edward William Hiscock died about 1865. Matha subsequently married Robert Abree, although I have yet to confirm this with a record.

 

The 1861 Census, Parish of St Mary's, District 18.

 The numbering of Grove Street according to the 1861 Census Record

 Tucker's Court, Grove Street; 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

Goddard's Buildings Grove Street; 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

Grove Street; 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 Somerset Arms, 11, 13, 14, 15.

Grove Street; 109 The United ??

Grove Street; 1, 2, 3, 4a, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25

Alms Houses Grove Street; 1, 2, 3, 4.

Grove Street; 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43.

Grove Street; 1 Apollo Tap, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.

New Court Grove Street; 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

Grove Street; 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26a, 27.

Grove Street; St Mary's National School House

Grove Street; 97, 96, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108.

 

A very strange numbering system measured against today's norms, with at least three No 1 Grove Street, as an example.

Previous experiences suggest that sometimes it is a case of a row of houses, or terrace numbered 1 to ?? and this is then repeated in another terrace.

A similar pattern occurs in the previous 1851 Census below.

 

Given the different numbering system, and no reference Star Inn, there appears no way to be able to identify the particular property later identified as No 89 Grove Street.. The occupants of no 89 Grove Street in the 1871 Census are to be found elsewhere in earlier Census, so even the names do not give a hint of the location.  

 

  

The 1851 Census, Parish of St Mary's, District 1o.

 The numbering of Grove Street according to the 1851 Census Record

Grove Street; 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25

Alms Houses Grove Street; 1, 2, 3, 4.

Grove Street; 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42.

Goddard's Buildings Grove Street; 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.

Tuckers Buildings Grove Street; 1, 2, 3, Unoccupied, 5

Grove Street; 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9.

New Court Grove Street; 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

Grove Street; 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, Uninhabited.

Grove Street; 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, Uninhabited, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109.

Grove Street; 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

Grove Street; 7,

 

A very strange numbering system measured against today's norms, with at least three No 1 Grove Street, as an example.

Previous experiences suggest that sometimes it is a case of a row of houses, or terrace numbered 1 to ?? and this is then repeated in another terrace.

 

Given the different numbering system, and no reference Star Inn, there appears no way to be able to identify the particular property later identified as No 89 Grove Street..

   

The 1841 Census, Parish of St Mary's, District 14.

The Census Record for Grove Street does not have house numbers. the Alms Houses are separately identified, but none of the courts or public houses until the Deanery on Chapel Road.

 

Tithe Apportionment and Map

 

The Tithe Apportionment is relatively late at 30th May 1851, compared to some of the others researched on this website. The Map is signed off by the Assistant Tithe Commissioner on 21st Sept 1852.

Normally that would provide a useful cross-reference to the Census of 1851. However, buildings don't produce crops or livestock, hence there is a lack of detail with the buildings being grouped into a large single plot, 477.

Tithe Map St Mary Infra Southampton

Landowner Organisation Town Portion of Saint Marys Infra
Parish St Marys Extra, Southampton
County Hampshire
Original Date 30th May 1851
Description of Land Saint Mary's Infra, Buildings
Quantities In Statute Measure 295,2,22
Plot 477

Within plot 477 is Grove Street, given a gold colour wash for easy identification. London and South Western Railway and Dorchester Railway are brown. I did think about using Malachite green, but that was more a later colour adopted by Southern Railway.

Locomotive liveries L&SWR

Liveries for painting of locomotives adopted by the successive Mechanical Engineers:

To 1850 (John Viret Gooch)
Little information is available although from 1844 dark green with red and white lining, black wheels and red buffer beams seems to have become standard.

1850–1866 (Joseph Hamilton Beattie)
Passenger classes – Indian red with black panelling inside white. Driving splashers and cylinders lined white. Black wheels, smokebox and chimney. Vermilion buffer beams and buff footplate interior.
Goods classes – unlined Indian red. Older engines painted black until 1859.

Southampton and Dorchester Railway

The Dorchester Railway shown near New Road did not last long as a separate company being amalgamated with LSWR in 1848.

Tithe Map Grove Street St Mary Infra Southampton

 Some of the roads are still identifiable today, and even part of Grove Street remains but the area has been redeveloped and repurposed. There is no evidence of 89 Grove Street now.

 

Enlightenment

I ordered a book online and it arrived today.

Southampton's Lost Streets St Mary and Golden Grove by Dave Marden

First published  2019 ISBN 978-1-78091-587-6

 

Chapter 2 of the book is entitled Grove Street and Bevois Street. It states that Grove Street and Bevois Street were two of the primary thoroughfares serving the area...

The author, David Marden apparently walked along Grove Street on his way to and from his Junior School.

He also recognises in the book the difficulties presented by the numbering system along the street having been changed several times. He does clarify that Grove Street retained its up and down numbers rather than switch to odds and evens.

Most of the buildings on the  street were complete by the 1840's.

One of the great benefits of the book for me, apart from the general story telling, is the numbering of the houses along the street.

Going back a little, I used the layout or footprint of the plan included with the lease above. Both the two houses and the marks beside the plots which I assume to indicate the walls of the adjacent, and adjoining, walls. With this information, I tried to pattern match the outline of the house and size of the plot to match with the Southampton City 1870 map and secondly the OS 25" map, shown above.

I did look at the house that the book has annotated as number 89, but some elements matched the footprint, but others did not, so I continued looking for a better match. Surprisingly, there are not many of the houses with a similar pattern of in and out protrusions at the back of the houses.

OS Map 1846 Southampton 89 90 Grove StreetOS Map 1846 Southampton 89-90 Grove Street

Circled in blue is the 89-90 Grove Street based on the observations of the book. You can see from the map that in 1846 there is an extension in the back that is not on the lease plan in 1906, sixty years later. There is some writing on the map which could be Star Inn. It is not clear enough on the web version of the map to make out the letters.  I think the houses with the trees in the back indicated on the 1846 Map are called Grove Terrace.

The same area but the 1870s map.

OS Map 1870 Southampton 89 90 Grove StreetOS Map 1870 Southampton 89-90 Grove Street and New Court

The same pair of buildings circled in blue. the Star Inn was still open in 1870, but both the annotations shown on the 1846 map have been omitted from the 1870 map. The extension is still shown in the backyard of no. 89.

An addition to the 1870 map is a row of houses which appear to be annotated as James Court, but are otherwise known as New Court, circled in orange.

Going back to the 1911 Census, there are two families listed as living at no 89 Grove Street. Edward Collins and his family in four rooms and Frederick Goodall and his family, in two rooms.

 

 

Edward Collins from above; (Image of Census page above {1911 one page per family})

Census 1911 - Occupants of 89 Grove Street, Southampton, Two families
Line No. Name and Surname Relation to Head Condition Age last birthday Estimated Birth Year Gender Years married Children born Children still alive Children who have died Occupation Employer / worker Working at home Where Born
1 Edward Collins Head Widow 54 1857 Male         House Carpenter Worker   St Mary's, Hampshire, England
2 Alice Collins
Wife
Single 37 1874 Female 16 3 3 0       St Mary's, Hampshire, England
3 Elsie Collins
Daughter
Single 15 1896 Female               St James
4 Letitia Collins
Daughter
Single 13 1898 Female               St James
5 Kathrine Collins Daughter Single  8 1903 Female               St Mary's
6 Jessie Collins
Daughter
Single 22 1889 Female               St James
                             
1 Frederick William Goodall  Head Married  40 1871 Male         Steward Shore Staff - Union Castle Co.  Worker  

Southampton, Hampshire

2 Ada Franes Goodall  Wife Married 39 1872 Female 15 8 3 5       Southampton, Hampshire
3 Ida Frances Goodall Daughter   12 1899 Female         School     Southampton, Hampshire
4 Stanley Herman Goodall Son   6 1905 Male               Southampton, Hampshire
5 Charles Henry James Goodall  Son   10/12 1910 Male               Southampton, Hampshire

 Census 1911 89 Grove Street B

 

 In the 1911 Census, from the records regarding 89 Grove Street, going back alone the Enumerators walk, assuming that is the order;

  • 88 Grove Street, Charles Gates, Mellie Gates, and Mary Ann Privett - Mother-in-law, in 4 rooms
  • 6 New Court, Grove Street, John Walker, and Mary Ann Walker, in 2 rooms
  • 5 New Court, Grove Street, Georgiana Virgo, and Charles Loving - Boarder, in 2 rooms
  • 4 New Court, Grove Street,
  • 3 New Court, Grove Street, Joseph James Riggs, and Anna Elizabeth Riggs, in 2 rooms
  • 2 New Court, Grove Street, Thomas Knowles, and Caroline Knowles, in 2 rooms
  • 1 New Court, Grove Street, James Mason, and Annie Mason, in 2 rooms
  • 87 Grove Street, Alfred Charles Gapper, May Gapper, Alfred Robert Gapper, and Edward Robert Gapper, in 4 rooms.

That makes sense with the book stating that New Court is only accessible through a narrow passageway between nos. 87 and 88 Grove Street, and that matches the 1870 Map above.

Census 1901 New Court Grove Street

It is even easier to see in the 1901 Census, where the Enumerators route is continuous, not one detail page per family plus a header page, as found in the 1911 Census. New Court is between no 87 Grove Street (on the previous page) and 88 Grove Street. 89 is next, shown in the 1901 Census image above.

My conclusion is that 89 Grove Street is near the Chapel Road end, in the vicinity of New Court.

There is even a photo of 89 Grove Street included in the book.

Fortunately, Southampton Council undertook an extensive photo survey of properties before demolition.

Summary

Subject: Photograph. These houses, situated on the east side of the street, date back to the 1830s or 1840s. They were demolished c1960.
Record details
Main title:
88-94 Grove Street
Imprint:
Southampton City Council
1959
Collation:
Bitonal (1bit)
Credits:
SCC Archives Services

 

88 92 Grove Street

88 92 Grove Street backs

Click on the image to go to the source, where full page images are available.

 

 

 

 



 

 

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