Collins families

Queen's Greetings Telegram for Diamond Wedding

James William Parker

Ivan Hurst Collins families 30 December 2023

James William Parker 1884-1971

Special thanks go to some of the Ancestry community who have done a lot of the heavy lifting for this, including AjHampshire1971, SueParkerHampshireUK, ange1bailey, and parkerfluengandy. Presumably all relatives, and some close direct relatives.

I came across their work whist researching Charles Henry New, his brother by the same parents, Charles Michael Parker and Agnes Ellen Parker nee Kimber. Their parents split up and their story splits up as well. James was with his father and Charles was with his mother. His mother met a man George Charles New. After some time Charles Henry Parker became known as Charles Henry New.

They are related through my Mothers side, and then through her mother, a Collins.

James had a long and interesting life.

Charles Henry New

Super User Collins families 22 December 2023

Charles Henry New or Parker

Also known as Charles Henry New, Charles Henry Parker, and Charles Michael Parker, and Charles Henry Parker New.

The challenge here is to find if and when Parker became New.

Charles Henry New

The registration card below is about 55 years after 1886. Or 1941. The USA joined WWII officially on December 11, 1941. The Registration Card could be either before or after that date, but is probably something to do with it.

Transcription of Registration Card D.S.S. Form 1 (USA)
	Serial number;	U2921
1	Name;	Charles Henry New
2	Place of Residence;	216 E Base Line, San Bernardino, California
3	Mailing Address;	Same
4	Telephone;
5	Age in Years / Date of Birth	55, July 1 1886
6	Place of Birth	Southampton, England
7	Name and address of person who will alway know your address	Mrs Charles New, 216 E Base Line, San Bernardino, California
8	Employer's Name and Address	McNeil Construction Co
9	Place of Employment or Business	Las Vegas, Clark County, Nevada

Did Charles become New on entry to the USA?

1913 Marriage solemnized at the Parish Church in the Parish of Ringwood in the County of Southampton [Hampshire]

No 115 April 19 1913

Charles Henry New, age 28, Bachelor, a Labourer from Sholing whose father George New, a S.W.R [South Western Railway] sheetman

married

Alice Elizabeth Sherstone, age 27, Spinster, from Ringwood whose father Tom Sherstone was a Labourer

Married in the Parish Church according to the Rite and Ceremonies of the Estab^d [Established] Church by or after Banns by me ????? Vicar

This marriage was solemnized between us, {Charles Henry New Alice Elizabeth Sherstone} in the Presence of us {T Sherstone, Alice Victoria New}

All parties could write their name

CHURCH OF ST PETER AND ST PAUL, MARKET PLACE, RINGWOOD

Grade II* Listed

Hampshire and Isle of Wight LXX.11, Revised: 1896, Published: 1897 - NLS OS 25 Map Ringwood Parish Church

So, if this is the same person he was married under the name New. Also mentioned, George New and Alice Victoria New.

After marriage it appears that they moved to where Charles Henry New was in residence at the date of the marriage, Sholing, Hampshire, which is now part of the City of Southampton.

Hampshire and Isle of Wight LXV.12, Revised: 1895, Published: 1897 - NLS OS Map 25 Sholing

The family then moved to the USA in 1920, after the Great War, WWI.

SS Royal George, Cunard Line,

Burden 11,146 gross
Built Shipowner or operator 1907 at Glasgow by Fairfield Shipbuilding & Eng. Co. Ltd. - Cunard Line
Dimensions 525.8ft x 60.2ft

Manifest of Alien Passengers for the United States Immigration Officer at Port of Arrival

on board the SS Royal George, Passengers sailing from Southampton Mar 30 1920, arriving New York Apr 10 1920.

Master, William Prothero. Surgeon, Edward Middleton.

Transcription of passenger List above
1	No. on List
2	HEAD-TAX STATUS (This column for use of Government officials only)
3	Name in Full
	Family Name	New	New	New	New	New
	Given Name	Charles Henry	Alice Elizabeth	Tom Henry A	George Charles V	Agnes Alice Mary
4	Age
	Years	37	35	4	2	1
	Months	7	10	7	6	5
	[Estimated birth]	SEP 1882	OCT 1884	SEP 1915	OCT 1917	NOV 1918
	[Actual Date of Birth]	3 OCT 1886	23 APR 1886	10 JUL 1915	10 AUG 1917	30 SEP 1918
5	Sex	M	F	M	M	F
6	Married or Single	M	M	S	S	S
7	Calling or Occupation	Labourer	H'wife	Student	Child	Child
8	Able to
	Read	Yes	Yes	Yes	No	No
	Read what Language [or if exception claimed on what ground].	English	English	English	Infant	Infant
	Write	Yes	Yes	Yes	No	No
9	Nationality [Country of which citizen or Subject].	England	England	England	England	England
10	Race or People	England	England	England	England	England
11	Last Permanent Residence
	Country	England	England	England	England	England
	City or Town	Sholing	Sholing	Sholing	Sholing	Sholing
12	The name and complete address of nearest relative or friend in country whence alien came	Mother, Mrs A New, 398 ? Cedar St. Riverside, Cali
13	Final destination
	State	Cali [California]	Cali [California]	Cali [California]	Cali [California]	Cali [California]
	City or town	Riverside	Riverside	Riverside	Riverside	Riverside
14	No on List	4	5	6	7	8
15	Whether having a ticket to such final destination	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
16	By whom was passage paid?	Mother
17	Whether in possession of $50, and if less, how much?	Yes
18	Whether ever before in the United States; and if so, when and where?
	Yes or No.	No	No	No	No	No
	If Yes --
	Year or period of years,
	Where?
19	Whether going to join a relative or friend; and if so, what relative or friend, and his name and complete address.	Mother, Mrs A New, 398 ? Cedar St. Riverside, Cali
20	Purpose of coming to United States.
	Whether alien intends to return to country whence he came after engaging temporarily in labouring pursuits in the United States.	No	No	No	No	No
	Length of time alien intends to remain in the United States.	Perm	Perm	Perm	Perm	Perm
	Whether alien intends to become a citizen of the Unites States.	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes	Yes
21	Ever in prison or ??? or institution for the cure and treatment of the insane, or supported by charity, if so, which?	No	No	No	No	No
22	Whether a polygamist.	No	No	No	No	No
23	Whether an anarchist.	No	No	No	No	No
24	Whether a person who believes in or advocates the overthrow by force or violence of the Government of the United States or all forms of ???	No	No	No	No	No
25	Whether coming by reason of any offer, solicitation, promise, or agreement, expressed or implied, to Labour in the United States	No	No	No	No	No
26	Whether alien had been previously deported within one year	No	No	No	No	No
27	Condition of health, mental and physical.	Good	Good	Good	Good	Good
28	Deformed or crippled. Nature, length of time, and cause.	No	No	No	No	No
29	Height
	Feet	5	5	--	--	--
	Inches	8
30	Complexion	Sllw [sallow]	Pale	--	--	--
31	Color of --
	Hair.	Lgt [light]	??	--	--	--
	Eyes.	Brown	??	--	--	--
32	Marks of identification	None	None	None	None	None
33	Place of birth
	Country	England	England	England	England	England
	City or town.	Sholing	Sholing	Sholing	Sholing	Sholing

Alice Elizabeth New was pregnant during the crossing to the USA as Frederick Louis New was born on 14 Aug 1920, just 4 months after landing in New York.

Charles Henry New states his Mother's address was 398 ? Cedar St. Riverside, California, although I can't be sure of the number on Cedar Street from the Passenger List. The address in Question 12 was meant to be, in this case in England. Perhaps as his mother was already in the USA, that is why the entries have been struck through. Perhaps not on the Alien List.

Where is Riverside? Near Los Angeles

A note from somebody on Ancestry.

When Charles Michael Parker was born in December 1860 in Southampton, Hampshire, his father, James, was 27 and his mother, Louisa, was 25. He married Agnes Ellen Kimber in December 1883. They had two children during their marriage. He died on February 10, 1926, in Southampton Hampshire England, at the age of 65. Agnes left Charles and lived with and had children by George New but I can't find a divorce from Charles Michael or a marriage to George New. I am descended from their eldest son James William who stayed with Charles Michael, his brother Charles Henry went with their Mum Agnes who eventually moved to riverside, California Charles Michael worked as a plasterer before he became ill in the last 19 years of his life.

This is an interesting take on the situation.

Charles Michael Parker and Charles Henry Parker

Charles Michael Parker

Charles Michael Parker was baptised on 24 Jan 1861 in Southampton Hampshire

Census 1861

Census for St Mary's Parish in 1861.

27 York Street, St Mary's, Southampton, Louisa Parker as Head, and Wife, Married, Female aged 25 born in Millbrook Hampshire.

Resident on the day of the Census with two sons, Edward J, aged 3 and Charles M, aged 6 months, both born in Northam, Hampshire.

I belive York Street was renamed Evens Street, which is shown on the Old OS 25" map below.

Hampshire and Isle of Wight LXV.12, Revised: 1895, Published: 1897 -- OS 25 Map York Street Evens Street, St Mary's Soton

Evans Street is coloured yellow. It is very close to St Mary's Church. Evans Street still exists, but as part of a duel carriageway, no semblance to 1861, or 1895.

However, in the 1861 Census York Street is flanked by Clarence Street, George Street, and Millstone Point. A search for Millstone Point reveals another York Street. It is not a surprise that one of the York Streets had a change of name.

Hampshire and Isle of Wight LXV.7, Revised: 1895, Published: 1897 - OS 25 Map York Street, Northam, Southampton

This matches with the children being born in Northam. The area has been redeveloped now, so no image of the old house.

However, this was found, posted on Ancestry by a relative of Charles Henry ???. It may be an extract from a book called Southampton's Lost Streets. I have a copy covering St Mary's and Golden Grove. There may be another covering this area.

Marriage of Agnes Ellen Kimber's Parents, Frederick Henry Kimber and Alice Bessant, 1861

1861 Marriage solemnized at St Mary's Church in the Parish of North Eling in the County of Southampton

No. 141. Nov 23rd 1861

Frederick Henry Kimber, aged 21, a Bachelor, profession, Groom, residence Bartley. Father Henry Kimber, a Bailiff.

Alice Bessant, aged 20, a Spinster, residence Bartley. Father William Bessant, a Labourer

Married in the Church at North Eling according to the Rites and Ceremonies of the Established Church after banns by me George N. Phillips, Vicar.

This Marriage was solemnized between us, { Frederick Henry Kimber - Alice Bessant }

In the Presence of us, { Henry Bessant - Elizabeth Kimber }

All parties could sign their own name.

Their residence of Bartley is 4.2 miles, a one and a half hour walk away, from St Mary's Church, via Eling Tide Mill. Perhaps it was the local parish church of Alice. Although there is another possibility which is discussed in Locations below.

Census 1871

Census for St Denys Parish and Village in 1871.

26 Adelaide Road, St Denys, Southampton, Louisa Parker as Head, and Wife, Married, Female aged 35, recorded as Fireman's Wife born in Hampshire.

Resident on the day of the Census with children;

Edward James, son, aged 13 years,
Charles Michael son, aged 10 years,
William Ambrose, son, aged 8 years,
Emma Louisa, daughter, aged 6 years,
Benjamin Walter, son, aged 3 years,

All single and born in Hampshire. All scholars apart from the 3 year old.

Together with Brother in Law, Frederick Gover, aged 14, also born in Hampshire and a scholar.

27 Adelaide Road, St Denys, Southampton, Hampshire. The Census has the family living at 26. No 27 in the image below is not necessarily the actual house as the numbers could have changed, but it is likely to be similar. They may be of the right age. The ones on the other side of the road are more modern. In the census, the numbers are sequential, did he walk along one side and then the other, or cross from side to side? The census list starts from North Street at no 1 Adelaide Road to no 88 where South Street is mentioned.then Eastfield Road.

Census 1881

Census for the Civil Parish of South Stoneham, Church Parish of St Deny's

82 Adelaide Road, Charles Parker. a boarder, unmarried male, aged 20, recorded occupation as a Plasterer, born in Northam, presumably, Hampshire.

Charles Michael Parker was born in 1861 and baptised on 24 Jan 1861 which would fit with him being 20 for this Census.

Marriage 1883

1883 Marriage solemnized at St Denys the Parish Church in the Parish of South Stonham in the County of Southampton [Hampshire]

No 175 October 27^th 1883

Charles Michael Parker, age 23, Bachelor, a Plastorer from St Denys whose father James Parker, a Maritime

married

Agnes Ellen Kimber, age 21, Spinster, from St Denys whose father Frederick Kinber was a Coachman

Married in the Church of St Denys according to the Rite and Ceremonies of the Established Church by or after Banns by me ????? ????.

This marriage was solemnized between us, {Agnes Ellen Kimber and Charles Michael Parker} in the Presence of us {Mary Kimber, William John Pennery}

All parties could write their name.

One of the witnesses, William John Pennery, is very similar to Pomeroy!

Birth of children

Birth Records

Born Seventh August 1884 at Adelaide Road, St Deny's, South Stoneham, James William, a Boy to father, Charles Michael Parker and mother Agnes Ellen Parker formerly Kimber, father's occupation, a Plasterer. Notified by A. E. Parker, Mother, Adelaide Road, St Deny's, South Stoneham on the Twenty first August 1884 by Edward Messum, Registrar.

Born First July 1884 at Adelaide Road, St Deny's, South Stoneham U.S.D., Charles Henry, a Boy to father, Charles Michael Parker and mother Agnes Ellen Parker formerly Kimber, father's occupation, a Plasterer (Journeyman). Notified by A. E. Parker, Mother, Adelaide Road, St Deny's, South Stoneham on the Third August 1886 by Edward Messum, Registrar.

I believe that U. S. D. is an abbreviation for Urban sanitary districts, areas in towns with existing local government bodies. Sometimes a combination of Poor Law Union and Sanitary District.

South Stoneham is a large registration district in southern Hampshire. See UK BMD. The parish of Portswood, which was created 1894 out of the part of the parish of South Stoneham in Southampton County Borough. Later the parishes of Portswood and Shirley were reallocated to Southampton Registration District on 1^st July 1909. South Stoneham Registration District was abolished on 1st April 1927.

The map on the link, Southampton Parishes shows Portswood as part of Southampton West, and is much larger than the current parish of Portswood.

The current address for Charles Henry Parker place of birth would be 27 Adelaide Rd, St Denys, Southampton SO17 2HU, although the house number a suggestion from other records.

Births registered

Parker, Charles Henry, S. Stoneham 2 c. 64, Q3 1886.

This registration and the above copy of the GRO Birth Certificate match for Charles Henry Parker.

Census 1891

A move to Jarrow?

The Jarrow March of 5–31 October 1936 was a long time in the future at the time of the 1891 Census, however, it is still somewhat strange for a plasterer to go from Southampton to go to Jarrow as a Shipyard Joiner. However, the names match, as do the places of birth. Bitterne and Botley are close together and would be acceptable for a Census match.

Census for Jarrow in the County of Durham 1891.

29 Blackett Street, Jarrow, Durham, Charles Parker as Head, married, male aged 28, recorded as Shipyard Joiner born in Sholing, Hampshire.

with

Agnes Parker, Wife, married female, aged 27, born in Bitterne, Hampshire

Resident on the day of the Census one child;

Charles H, son, aged 2 months, single and born in Jarrow, Durham

Charles H Parker was therefore born in 1891 at Jarrow.

Now for something different.

A Census for a street just a short distance south of York Street.

Census 1891 for St Mary Southampton

4 Belvidere Terrace, St Mary's, Northam, Southampton, George New, married, male aged 30, recorded as a Railway Porter, born in Andover, Hampshire.

with

Agnes New, Wife, married, aged 27, born in Ealing Hampshire

Resident on the day of the Census with children;

Charles New, son, aged 4 years, born in St Denys
Agnes New, daughter, aged 4 years, born in Southampton
Alice New, daughter, aged 1 month, born in Southampton

All single and born in Hampshire.

Estimated years of birth;

George New 1861
Agnes New 1864
Charles New 1887
Agnes New 1888
Alice New 1891

All the above Census 1891 copied to the George Charles New section, to begin a new line of enquiry!

Census 1901

Census for St Mary's, Northam, Southampton, in 1901.

50 Radcliffe Road, St Mary's, Southampton, Charles M Parker as Head, Married, Female aged 40, recorded as Plasterer born in Southampton, Hampshire.

Resident on the day of the Census with a child;

James W, son, aged 16 years, single, worker in Engineering shop, and born in Southampton, Hampshire.

Charles M Parker appears without a wife at this time.

Has the family split up?

Census 1901 the parish of Sholing

2 Kitchener Terrace, Butt's Road, Sholling, St Mary Extra, Hampshire, England

2 Kitchener Terrace ?? St Mary Extra, Southampton, Agnes Parker as Head, Widowed, Female aged 37, recorded as being employed in House Keeping born in Botley, Hampshire.

Resident on the day of the Census with children;

Charles Parker, son, aged 15 years, single, worker [possibly ??? Farm], and born in St Denys, Hampshire.

Other children;

Alice New, daughter, aged 10, single, born in Northam, Hampshire
George New, son, aged 5, single, born in Shirley, Hampshire
Pearl New, daughter, aged 2, single, born in Eastleigh, Hampshire

From the places of birth of the children, Agnes has moved around a lot in the last twenty years if you include James W, living with his father in the other 1901 Census above. Southampton, St Denys, Northam, Shirley. and Eastleigh. All in the vicinity of Southampton.

Agnes also tells the Enumerator for the Census that she is a Widow, which I don't believe is true as he appears to be living at 50 Radcliff Road on the same day as she states he is dead. Agnes is still surname Parker, so presumably has not yet remarried. At a guess I would say that she is living with a man as if they were married with the surname New, and at this stage they have had three children together who remain alive at the date of the 1901 Census.

Agnes Ellen Kimber, age 21 according to the Marriage certificate of 1883. 1901 is 18 years after marriage, so would equate to Agnes Ellen Parker being 39 years of age. Age 37 on the 1901 Census is well within the tolerances of ages found in the Census records.

Charles Michael Parker, age 23, according to the Marriage certificate of 1883. 1901 is 18 years after marriage, so would equate to Charles Michael Parker being 41 years of age. Age 40 on the 1901 Census is well within the tolerances of ages found in the Census records.

Sholing and Botany Bay had a proportion of itinerant people living in the area at the time, which may have made it easier to blend into the shadows of society, if that is what they were trying to do.

Census 1911

Collation of Places of Abode for Charles Micheal Parker extracted from the preceding records
No.	Section	Place of abode	Estimate of commencement at abode or date of record containing location	Estimate of finish at abode or date of record containing new location
1	England	Southampton, Hampshire	Baptism - 1861
2	England	27 York Street, St Mary's, Northam, Southampton	Census 1861
3	England	26 Adelaide Road, St Denys, Southampton	Census 1871
4	England		Census 1881
5	England	St Denys, Southampton	Marriage 1883
6			Census 1891
7			Census 1901
8			Census 1911
9
10
11
12
13
14

George Charles New

Locations

Places and locations of significance to this article gathered together in one place.

Southampton and area

Southampton has grown considerably over time. Accordingly some places that were separate villages, or even open space, are now absorbed into the town/brough and now city of Southampton.

St Mary's church is close to the old walled town of Southampton, and is therefore part of the core. Portswood, Northam, and St Denys are all further out but are in the same area with some overlapping.

St Mary's

Portswood

Northam

St Denys

{\tabs-CHNlocSoton}

Bartley

Continued

Ringwood

Jarrow

Sholing

Sholing, Bitterne, Hampshire

Domesday Book

There appears to be no mention of Sholing in the Domesday Book, at least in that form of spelling. However there is an entry for Hound.

Hound was a settlement in Domesday Book, in the hundred of Mansbridge and the county of Hampshire.

It had a recorded population of 23 households in 1086, putting it in the largest 40% of settlements recorded in Domesday (NB: 23 households is an estimate, since multiple places are mentioned in the same entry).

The image is an extract of the Domesday Book, fortunately transcribed for us.

Land of Hugh of Port

Households

Households: 31 villagers. 9 smallholders. 6 slaves.

Land and resources

Ploughland: 9 ploughlands. 3 lord's plough teams. 6 men's plough teams.

Other resources: Meadow 20 acres. 2 mills, value 1 pound. 1 church.

Valuation

Annual value to lord: 14 pounds in 1086; 8 pounds when acquired by the 1086 owner; 14 pounds in 1066.

Owners

Tenant-in-chief in 1086: Hugh of Port.
Lord in 1086: Hugh of Port.
Overlord in 1066: King Edward.
Lords in 1066: Wulfric; Wulfward.

Other information

This entry mentions multiple places: Hound; Warnford.
Phillimore reference: Hampshire 23,18

The map marks the location of Hound from the Domesday Book entry, and the suburb of Sholing in the modern Southampton. Hound is not the nearest dot on the map. Netley and Woolston, also have entries.

Netley was a settlement in Domesday Book, in the hundred of Mansbridge and the county of Hampshire.

It had a recorded population of 13 households in 1086.

Land of Richard Poynant

Households

Households: 9 villagers. 2 smallholders. 2 slaves.

Land and resources

Ploughland: 5 ploughlands. 1 lord's plough teams. 2 men's plough teams.
Other resources: Meadow 4 acres. Woodland 40 swine render. 1 church.

Valuation

Annual value to lord: 5 pounds in 1086; 2 pounds when acquired by the 1086 owner; 3 pounds in 1066.

Owners

Tenant-in-chief in 1086: Richard Poynant.
Lord in 1086: Richard Poynant.
Overlord in 1066: King Edward.
Lord in 1066: Alward.

Other information

Phillimore reference: Hampshire 42,1

Woolston was a settlement in Domesday Book, in the hundred of Mansbridge and the county of Hampshire.

It had a recorded population of 6 households in 1086, putting it in the smallest 40% of settlements recorded in Domesday.

Land of Reginald (Cnut)

Households

Households: 3 villagers. 3 smallholders.

Land and resources

Ploughland: 1 men's plough teams.

Valuation

Annual value to lord: 5 shillings in 1086; 10 shillings in 1066.

Owners

Tenant-in-chief in 1086: Reginald (Cnut).
Lord in 1086: Reginald (Cnut).
Overlord in 1066: King Edward.
Lord in 1066: Tovi.

Other information

Phillimore reference: Hampshire 59,1

The abbey of Netley

The abbey of Netley, Letley (Lœtus Locus), or Edwardstow (Loci Sancti Edwardi), dedicated to the honour of the Blessed Virgin and St. Edward the Confessor, was founded for Cistercian monks by Henry III. in 1239. It appears that Peter des Roches, Bishop of Winchester (1205-38), purchased the land of ' Hanseta ' and ' Cedrigia' from William, Bishop of Angers, and the dean and chapter of Angers; lands in Wellow from the abbot of St. Mary de Pratis, Leicester; lands at Kingston Deverel from the bishop and chapter of Le Mans; land called 'Ayhsleg' in Dorsetshire from the abbot of Croix St. Leufroy; and some other parcels of land, apparently with the object of founding this monastery. The bishop, however, died in 1238, before the completion of his object, and the actual foundation was carried out by Henry III. in the following year. Hence the king was usually referred to as the founder. So soon as the monastery was completed it was colonized by monks from the Cistercian abbey of Beaulieu, who arrived at their new home on St. James' Day, 1239.

In August, 1243, Roger de Clare sold to the abbey for 300 marks the tilled land and pasture which lay between their manor of Gomshall and the highway from Guildford to Dorking, and also the advowson of the church of Shere, which grant was confirmed by John de Warren, Earl of Surrey, in 1252.

In 1244 Innocent IV. sanctioned Under certain conditions the appropriation by the abbey of Netley of the churches of Shere and Wellow, valued at £30 per annum. The same pope in the following year confirmed to the abbot and convent of Netley the privileges of not being compelled by bishops or others to attend synods or assemblies outside their order, save only pro fide, and of exemption from sentences of excommunication, suspension or interdict.

In the same year Robert, abbot of Netley, released to the Bishop of Winchester the manor of Esher, with the advowson of the church and all its appurtenances, save 100s. worth of land in Dorsetshire. In August, 1247, the abbot and convent of Lieu Dieu, in the diocese of Amiens, sold to the abbey of Netley for 600 marks their English manor of Nordley, their rents in Oxford, their rents and rights in Chaddleworth and their rent of five marks from the church of Henton.

Henry III. on 7 March, 1251, confirmed to Netley Abbey (Sancte Marie de Loco Sancti Edwardi) the site of the monastery with the lands of Netley, Hound, Wellow, Totton, Gomshall, Nordley, Kingston Deverel, Waldon, Aynsley and Lacton, with rents in Charleton, Southampton and Southwark, a hundred acres in Shere manor and the church there, as well as many liberties and privileges. A fortnight later the king granted to the abbey free warren on their lands in Netley, Hound, Shotteshale, Westbrook and Sholing (Hants), Waddon and Aynsley (Dorset), and Gomshall and Shere (Surrey), a weekly market at Hound on Monday and a two days' fair at Wellow on the vigil and day of St. Margaret. Henry III. continued his benefactions to the abbey, and on 24 July, 1253, granted to it three carucates of land, of 100 acres each, in the New Forest, with licence to enclose and cultivate them; and in 1256 he gave special licence to enclose the same against the king's deer. He also further granted to the abbey a tun of wine yearly out of the prisage at Southampton, to be used for the celebrations in the abbey. Edward I. instructed the taker of the king's wines at Southampton in 1276, 1277 and 1280 to duly supply this wine according to the late king's charter; but in 1281 Edward I. granted 20s. yearly in alms in lieu of the wine, as the prisage at Southampton was assigned to Eleanor, the king's mother, as part of her dower.

... (jumping forward a few centuries)

A royal commission was issued in 1535, which empowered Thomas, abbot of Forde, to visit various Cistercian houses, including Netley and all those of Winchester diocese.

The Valor of 1535 estimated the gross revenue of Netley Abbey at £160 2s. 9½d., whilst the clear income was only £100 12s. 8d.; it therefore came under the heading of the lesser monasteries. Being of exempt jurisdiction, no particulars are given in the return.

On 30 May, 1536, Sir James Worsley and his brother commissioners presented their report on the religious houses of Hampshire. Netley is described as 'A hedde house of Monkes of thordre of Cisteaux, beinge of large buyldinge and situate upon the Ryvage of the Sees. To the Kinge's Subjects and Strangers travelinge the same Sees great Relief and Comforte.' The commissioners estimated its total revenues at £181 2s. 8d. They found there seven monks, all priests, ' by Raporte of good Religious conversation, whereof desieren to Contynne Religiar vj, and to have capacite j.' There were thirty-two other inmates, namely ' ij freeres observantes comytted by the Kinge's highnes,' four waiting servants, four officers of the household, eleven officials of the convent, seven hinds and three ' for the dayery.' The church, mansions and buildings were in good repair. The lead and bells were worth £57; plate and jewels, £43 2s. 11d.; ornaments, £39 4s. 8d.; stuff, £9 3s. 4d.; corn, £10 17s.; stocks and stores, £103 13s. 4d. The woods were worth £81. The debts of the house were £42 3s. 4d., but there was £28 5s. owing to the house.

The abbey of Netley retained most of its early endowments, and at the time of its dissolution the lands belonging to it were, besides the site, the manors of Wellow, Totton, Roydon, Nordley, Gomshall, Kingston Deverel and Hound; and lands and possessions in Southampton, West Setley, Mitcomb Regis, Charleton, Shottishale, Sholinge and Shamelhurst.

On 3 August, 1536, the king gave to Sir William Poulett, the comptroller of his household (two of whose brothers had been the commissioners who reported so favourably of this house in the previous May), the site and buildings of the suppressed abbey, together with the grange, mill and lands in Netley; the manor of Hound; lands and windmill, etc., in Hound and Sholing; the manor of Townhill; lands, etc., in Townhill and Shamelhurst; and the manor of Waddon and the farm of Aisheley in Dorsetshire. The manor of Kingston Deverill (Wilts) was bestowed on Sir Edward Seymour in the following year. The reversion and rent reserved upon a lease granted in 1502 by Abbot John Burges of the manor of Gomshall, Surrey, was given in 1538 to Sir Edward Braye. The tithes of Wellow rectory and land there were granted in 1539 to Sir Richard Lyster, chief baron.

The English Reformation

The English Reformation took place in 16th-century England when the Church of England broke away from the authority of the Pope and the Roman Catholic Church. These events were, in part, associated with the wider European Protestant Reformation, a religious and political movement that affected the practice of Christianity in western and central Europe. Causes included the invention of the printing press, increased circulation of the Bible and the transmission of new knowledge and ideas among scholars, the upper and middle classes and readers in general. The phases of the English Reformation, which also covered Wales and Ireland, were largely driven by changes in government policy, to which public opinion gradually accommodated itself.

The break with Rome was affected by a series of Acts of Parliament passed between 1532 and 1534, among them the 1534 Act of Supremacy, which declared that Henry was the "Supreme Head on earth of the Church of England" (this title was renounced by Mary I in 1553 in the process of restoring papal jurisdiction; when Elizabeth I reasserted the royal supremacy in 1559, her title was Supreme Governor). Final authority in doctrinal and legal disputes now rested with the monarch; the papacy was deprived of revenue and the final say on the appointment of bishops.

Another view of the English Reformation

Dissolution of the Monasteries (and Abbeys)

The Reformation in Tudor England was a time of unprecedented change. One of the major outcomes of the Reformation was the destruction of the monasteries which began in 1536.

The Reformation came about when Henry VIII wished to divorce his first wife, Catherine of Aragon, who had failed to give him a male heir. When the Pope refused to grant the divorce, Henry set up the Church of England. The Act of Supremacy in 1534 confirmed the break from Rome, declaring Henry to be the Supreme Head of the Church of England.

The monasteries were a reminder of the power of the Catholic Church. It was also true that the monasteries were the wealthiest institutions in the country, and Henry’s lifestyle, along with his wars, had led to a lack of money. Monasteries owned over a quarter of all the cultivated land in England. By destroying the monastic system Henry could acquire all its wealth and property whilst removing its Papist influence.

The idea was not new. Thomas Cromwell had already helped Cardinal Wolsey dissolve monasteries in the past. First of all, a dossier was presented to Parliament outlining the corrupt morals of the clergy. Henry’s chief minister Cromwell then introduced the ‘Valor Ecclesiasticus’ to find out just how much property was owned by the Church. He sent out royal commissioners to all the monasteries in England, Wales and Ireland.

This led to the Act of Suppression in 1536 whereby small monasteries with an income of less than £200 a year were closed and their buildings, land and money taken by the Crown. The Second Suppression Act of 1539 allowed the dissolution of the larger monasteries and religious houses.

Monastic land and buildings were confiscated and sold off to families who sympathised with Henry’s break from Rome. By 1540 monasteries were being dismantled at a rate of fifty a month.

After the disposal of their monastic lands and buildings, the majority of monks, friars and nuns were given money or pensions. However, there were some abbots and religious house leaders who refused to comply. They were executed and their monasteries destroyed. Thousands of monastic servants suddenly found themselves without employment.

A bit circuitous, but it appears that from the initial growth and spread of influence following Netley Abbey's creation, upon the dissolution of the Abbey, Sholing came under the control of Sir William Poulett,

Shortly after the Dissolution of Netley Abbey, we have Saxton's map of Hampshire, 1575. Below is a extract.

Extract from Christopher Saxton Map - Map, hand coloured copper plate engraving, Southamtoniae, ie Hampshire, scale about 4 miles to 1 inch, engraved by Leonard Terwoort, Antwerp, Netherlands, published by Christopher Saxton, map maker, London? about 1575

Hound and Netley are shown as well as Bitterne, but Sholing is not on the map yet.

Map, hand coloured copper plate engraving, Hantshire described and divided, Hampshire with part of the Isle of Wight, and a town plan of Winchester, scale about 4 miles to 1 inch, by John Speed, engraved by Jodocus Hondius, about 1611. Published in the Theatre of the Empire of Great Britain, 1611.

The administrative districts called Hundreds are shown on this 1611 map. Hound and Netley are in Mansbridge Hundred, which appears to be in three separate sections, whilst Sholing, which would be between Bitterne and Itchen are in Waltham Hundred. Click on the map to go to the larger source map for greater clarity.

These notes are made from a '1 inch to 1 mile' map of Hampshire surveyed by Thomas Milne, published by William Faden, 1791. The item used is in the Map Collection of Hampshire CC Museums Service, item HMCMS:FA1998.124.

We can rely on Milne's 1791 Map to provide more detail. Hound is shown, as are Netley, Castle, Netley Abbey, Netley Green, Netley Lodge, and Netley. Family seats, or Estates are also shown with the name of the owner. Sydney Farm for instance is annotated The Honourable Mrs Yorke. Sholing, whilst in the vicinity of Sydney Farm, still does not receive a mention.

These notes are made from a 1 inch to 1 mile map of Hampshire surveyed by C and J Greenwood and N L Kentish, published by Greenwood and Pringle and Co, 1826. The item used is in the Map Collection of Hampshire CC Museums Service, item HMCMS:FA1965.589 - Southampton

Still no Sholing on Greenwood's 1826 version of Hampshire.

Tithe Map of the Parish of Hound near Southampton

The first recognisable part of the Tithe map of the Parish of Hound, Hampshire was Millers Pond, which fortunately was named on the map and the apportionment, circled in blue. It is a different shape however form the same named pond on the later Ordnance Survey 25" Map. I believe that this can be explained. Hover over the map to zoom in. The brown wash area is the Parish of St Mary's Extra. Millers Pond on the map starts to curve upwards, but it enters another parish and the drawing on the pond is not completed. The additional pond north of Millers pond could have been filled in.

Extract of Parish of Hound Tithe Apportionment with Sholing Roads and Commons

There are a number of roads listed in the Parish of Hound Tithe Apportionment in the Tithing of Sholing, Roads and Commons, in particular;

Plot	Description	Colour wash
18	Part of Itchen Lane and New Turnpike Road	Pink
73	Turnpike Road to Botley	Green
76	Portsmouth Turnpike Road	Brown
80	New Turnpike Road through Sholing Common	Pink
84b	New Turnpike Road to Portsmouth	Pink
109a & b	Southampton and Portsmouth Turnpike Road	Brown
423	Turnpike Road Near Bursledon Bridge	Brown

The colour wash refers to the additional colour lines added to the tithe map to indicate the Turnpike Roads crossing the parish. The light green area on the zoom in map, hover over with a mouse, is Sholing Common. Itchen Lane is shown on the route of the New Turnpike Road. Sholing Lane, towards the top left of the map in red wash. The New Turnpike Road is presumably to serve the Itchen Floating Bridge, also shown on the main map.

South Stoneham Registration District

Registration County : Hampshire.
Created : 1.7.1837.
Abolished : 1.4.1927 (to become part of Eastleigh registration district).
Sub-districts : Millbrook, St. Mary Extra, South Stoneham.
GRO volumes : VII (1837-51), 2c (1852-1927).

A lot of my close Family History is based around Hampshire, and in particular the South Stoneham Registration District. Records frequently stating South Stoneham, which from the above table by Brett Langston it is evident covers a large area, as well as the village of South Stoneham. Hover over the map of the Parishes of Hampshire to zoom into the parishes around South Stoneham.

Onward to 1840s, and OS Old Series Hampshire 1810 (revised). Southampton has a dock and the railways have arrived. Sholing, circled in red, has arrived on a map.

These notes are made from the first edition, Old Series one inch to one mile maps of Hampshire surveyed by the Ordnance Survey, Tower of London, London, published in the 1810s. The maps used are mostly later editions mostly from the 1840s, and are in the Map Collection of Hampshire CC Museums Service

Sydney Farm appears to be Sydney House and Ridgeway, Ridgeway Castle, but no owners shown. Botany Bay also makes a appearance, between Sholing Common and Netley Common.

Ordnance Survey Map Southampton (Outline), Sheet 315, Revised: 1893, Published: 1895 - Marker at Sholing

In 1893, it is evident from the one inch map above that Sholing is still predominantly rural and not yet absorbed into a suburb of Southampton. The address would therefore be Sholing, Hampshire, or Sholing, Bitterne, Hampshire, in the registration district of South Stonham.

Hampshire and Isle of Wight LXV.12, Revised: 1895, Published: 1897 - Sholing Common

Change to a 25 inch OS Map and there is more detail to look at. The map seems to indicate that Sholing Common and Sholing Bottom are included the general area of Sholing, together with, potentially, at the very bottom of the map, Botany Bay. Click on the map to investigate further. Middle Road has a gravel colour wash.

Wikipedia also has an article about Sholing

In 1920, the village became part of the Borough of Southampton. Its history as a separate entity ended then.

USA

Calculations and Suppositions

Census 1901 supposition

It appears to me that the Census of 1901 for 2 Kitchener Terrace, Butt's Road, Sholing, Hampshire is the merging of two families, despite the absence of two men.

Putting both full families together, purely as conjecture, to see how it all looked together.

Starting with the Parker family, and then adding the New family from both 1891 and 1901 Census.

Collation of information in 1891 and 1901 Census into two family groups, Parker and New

	Name	Not incl	Estimated Birth	Census Residence	Census Year
1	Charles Michael Parker	X	1901-40=1861	50 Radcliff Road	1901
2	Agnes Ellen Parker nee Kimber		1901-37=1864	2 Kitchener Terrace	1901
3	James W Parker	X	1901-16=1885	50 Radcliff Road	1901
4	Charles Parker		1901-15=1886	2 Kitchener Terrace	1901
5	Charles H Parker	X	1891-0=1891	29 Blackett Street, Jarrow	1891

6	George New	X	1891-30=1861		1891
7	Agnes New	X	1891-27=1864		1891
8	Charles New	X	1891-4=1887		1891
9	Agnes New	X	1891-3=1888		1891
10	Alice New		1891-0=1891	2 Kitchener Terrace	1901
11	George New		1901-5=1996	2 Kitchener Terrace	1901
12	Pearl New		1901-2=1899	2 Kitchener Terrace	1901

Two other suppositions that need to be explored.

That Agnes Parker nee Kimber and Agnes New are different people despite name and year of birth similarities. The first was born in Botley / Bitterne, Hampshire, and the latter, Ealing, Hampshire. Both in the vicinity of Southampton, but one near the River Itchen, and the second, adjacent to the River Test.
That Charles H Parker, born in 1891 in Jarrow, but died before 1886 when the name was reused for a son born in St Denys, Northam, Southampton, Hampshire That however is the wrong way around. Are there two Charles Parker in the family. Or is the 1891 Census not a match. With James (1885) and Charles (1886) not being with them in Jarrow, where are they? James is in Cardiff, Wales with his Grandmother in the 1891 Census, but Charles is yet to be accounted for.

So far I have not found any records to categorically prove these suppositions.

An alternative position is that Agnes was leading a double live with two families, just three streets apart, if ignoring the trip to Jarrow. Which currently I consider improbable.

DNA

Notes from others

Conclusion

Kate's wedding day

Catherine Alice Collins

Ivan Hurst Collins families 08 October 2021

Catherine Alice Collins was my Nan. My mother’s mother.

Kate was born on 20th September 1902 in Southampton, Hampshire, England, and her parents were Edward Nash Collins and Alice Florence Collins nee Furzey.

Alice was Edward’s second wife, the first was Jemima Joanna Brookman. Jemima was born in 1858 in Southampton, Hampshire, her father, John, was 51, and her mother, Rose, was 44. She married Edward Nash Collins on 27^th July 1884 in Southampton. She died on 1^st October 1894 at the young age of 36. They had four children during their marriage. Elizabeth Emma Rose Collins was born in 1885, Beatrice Janet Collins was born in 1887, Laura Jessie Leah Collins was born in 1888, and Ellen Maud Collins was born in 1892. They were aged 9, 7, 6, and 2 respectively, when their mother died in 1894.

Edward was only 37 when Jemima died. Within a year, he had married Alice. According to their Marriage Certificate Edward Nash Collins (38, Widower) - Alice Florence Furzey (21, Spinster) on 3^rd June 1895 in the Parish Church of St Mary, Southampton, both of 73 Grove St, Southampton. Fathers, Thomas Collins, Labourer and Charles Henry Furzey, Marinier. In the presence of James Collins and Kate Turpin. Alice was 17 years his younger.

According to the 1891 Census the Collins's family were living at 6 Threefields Lane, Southampton. Just to add to the confusion the ecclesiastical parish and municipal ward was St James but the civil parish was St Mary. Rose, 6, Beatrice, 4 and Jessie, 2, constituted the children living at home. Their fourth child, Maud, was born later, in 1892.

A widow called Ann Brookman, aged 78 also lived at 6 Threefields Lane, together with some of her family. Ann was Jemima's mother. Ann whose maiden name was Rose Ann Campbell, was born in 1814. She married John James Brookman on 7^th January 1833 in Southampton, Hampshire. They had 11 children in 26 years. She died on 13^th March 1894 in Southampton, Hampshire, having lived a long life of 80 years. About six months before her daughter, Jemima.

By the 1901 Census everything had changed. Edward's wife was now Alice, aged 27, and they lived at 13 Chapel Street, St Mary, Southampton. Beatrice, 14 and Maud, 9, whose mother Jemima had died in 1894, were living with their father and stepmother, Alice. In addition there were Edward and Alice's daughters Elsie, 5 and Lettie, 3, Kate's elder sisters. Another resident was Edward Furzey, 20, stated as nephew. Edward was no longer a cabinet maker as recorded in the 1891 Census and was now a house painter and decorator.