Charles Penny of Southampton

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Charles Penny of Southampton

Another family another article.

Charles Penny
1821–1899
Birth 1821 • Southampton Hampshire England
Death 24 DEC 1899 • Hamble, Hampshire, England

Starting relationship;

Not yet established.

OR

Charles Frederick Penny
1820–1899
Birth 10 FEB 1820 • Eling, Hampshire, England
Death 24 DEC 1899 • Hampshire, England

great-grandnephew of husband of paternal grandmother of husband of 3rd great-grandaunt

Starting Ancestry Synopsis;

Charles Penny was born in 1821 in Southampton, Hampshire. He married Charlotte Sweetingham on 3 December 1849 in his hometown. They had eight children in 17 years. He died on 24 December 1899 in Hampshire having lived a long life of 78 years.

When Charles Frederick Penny was born on 10 February 1820 in Eling, Hampshire, his father, Richard, was 20 and his mother, Frances, was 24. He married Elizabeth Prince on 9 December 1844. They had ten children in 22 years. He died on 24 December 1899 in Hampshire having lived a long life of 79 years.

Houston, we have a problem.

Conflicting information and other peoples Ancestry Trees suggesting both same and different information.

For ease of reference I will refer to them as Charles Penny A and Charles Penny B, respectively.

There are three particular peoples trees that I have been interested in as they all have living people with a common ancestor.

Richard Penny
1799–1858
Birth 24 MAR 1799 • Eling, Hampshire, England,
Death OCT 1858 • Hound, Hampshire, England

Ancestry Member Name	Family Tree	Person at end of my branch
jackslong	COLBORNE Family Tree	Jacqueline M Colborne
Nathan Petty	Nathan Petty	Nathan Petty
Susan Jane Sainsbury	Sainsbury Family Tree	Susan Jane Sainsbury

In no way do I intend to be derogatory to any of these people or the work that they have done on their trees.

The above people link through to one of my ancestors;-

Robert Eldridge
1710-1798
B:7 June 1710 Minstead, Hampshire, England
D:1798 Eling, Hampshire, England

father-in-law of paternal grandmother of husband of 3rd great-grandaunt

This will attempt to add some clarity regarding his family. Watch the story develop in 'Discovery'

Help Notes.

The expectation is that people reading this will use it in different ways. Some will just jump to the conclusion, whilst some others will want more information and go to the datasheet. A very few may read cover to cover, which I hope you will find interesting and informative. Especially the surprise revelation in Discovery - Other - The Camp.

A brief overview
	Contents
	About the Parish of Nursling Not yet rewritten	Some history, maps, and location information
	Register of Nursling Parish Church 1736 to 1797 Not yet rewritten	Mainly a transcript of the Notes found in that Register
	Discovery Not yet rewritten	Discovery is the research
	Data Sheet Not yet rewritten	Data Sheet is a collation of the relevant data

Approx 20,000 words, estimated reading time 66 minutes for the words and 30 minutes for the images.

Charles Penny A

Surname : Penny or Penney
Child's First Name: Charles
Date of Baptism :
Parent(s) :
Parish :
Son / Daughter : Son
Notes : N/A

Charles Penny B

Surname : Penny or Penney
Child's First Name: Charles
Date of Baptism :
Parent(s) :
Parish :
Son / Daughter : Son
Notes : N/A

Potential parents A

WillIam Penny
Birth
1789 • Woodford, Wiltshire, England, United Kingdom
Death
January 1867 • Amesbury, Wiltshire

Mary Pepperell
Birth
1792 • Woodford, Wiltshire, England, United Kingdom
Death
1829 • Woodford, Wiltshire, England

Introduction - Explanation

Discovery

I have decided to split the information about this person into two main sections. The first is discovery. Generally the first discovery is from Ancestry Trees and Hints. For the avoidance of repetition, I will not repeat that in the Discovery section for each person. Sometimes the lead maybe from MyHeritage, or other similar genealogy sites. Where that is the case, I will state so. Another lead could be DNA, including Ancestry's ThroughLines, again to be stated.

However, the main point of the discovery section is to create something of a story for the person and his or her life. A brief synopsis, sometimes over and above that created by Ancestry's AI.

Data Sheet

The next part is the Data Sheet. Designed to be the collection of all the records, and information found about the person. It can include records already shown in the Discovery Section, for completeness of the Data Sheet. However, although the template is structured for lots of possible information, I am sure that there will be times when there will be many gaps, which will be left so, just in case more information comes to light at a later time.

Structure

The structure of the family website is multifaceted. It depends of where you come into the site as to how transparent this is. The most simple page is that of a single person. More complicated is a single family, where there is a father and the articles within for associated people such as wife and children. The next level is multi-generation built around a hub, Articles within articles, generation after generation. With time it slowly grows. Each person within the growing mass, has a single focused article with a similar structure. This method, I think, gives structure to the reader, and to me.

This itself is a snippet which is frequently repeated, and not therefore specific.

The first place I will look is the Census data , to get a initial idea of the family / families, and to add to discovery.

About the Parish of Nursling

Register of Nursling Parish Church 1736 to 1797

Discovery

This is the research hub. A record of the information I have found, or sometimes not found, whist digging around in the past to find out about this family.

It could be called Research and Discovery, but the section mainly only records the discoveries made, hence the name.

The first part is very easy, outlining the seed or inspiration for this article, together with using Ancestry to provide some information about the Surname, Mabey. There is also a brief history of why we are lucky enough to have parish records today to delve into.

The next section is also, relatively easy, where I try to establish the initial parameters for the research. Of course, there will be rabbit holes which will need to be jumped in on the way, but that is only natural. Going down the rabbit whole is part of the frustration, and part of the fun.

The parish registers next, the serious, and very time consuming section.

I do a page turn of the Register images looking for any entries with the surname Mabey or Long, as well as variations of those surnames. This is part of the process of trying to establish John and Mary Mabey's family.

By seeing families in the Baptism Register can help eliminate alternative options for residents in Nursling, Hampshire, but only those of the Church of England. Dissident registers are held elsewhere.

I start with baptisms, but obliviously this method excludes families without children, but we know John and Mary had children because of the Ancestry Family tree, we just need to verify that. It also does not take into account other variables such as change of location.

This has only been one pass so I might have missed a Mabey or Long entry.

Although page turning the registry is slow, time consuming laborious work, it can bring forth revelations not possible by just searching the datasets of the transcriptions. The whole story about The Camp would not have come to light without. Some of the pages appear to be water damaged at the bottom, and those entries are not transcribed, presumably because the results would be un-reliable. In amongst such records, I found a missing baptism, with from what I could decipher was the surname Meabee. The writing of that had a distinctive shape. When again searching for that shape, I found additional records which had been transcribed, and entered into the dataset, but with different surnames, such as Meater. Looking at the information in isolation, I can fully understand the reasons why the transcription was as it was, but by the shapes, they were possibly, probably the same family.

Continue with Marriages, and Burials

The Spelling of Surnames
It is commonly accepted that for the printed word, the spelling system became standardised by the end of the seventeenth century. Powerful influences had been the introduction of the printing press (with spelling conventions set by the printers) and the publication of dictionaries. This standardisation was not echoed in the recording of surnames. Famously, Shakespeare had 5 other variants of his name, in his lifetime. Indeed, standardisation did not arrive until the advent of mass literacy in the twentieth century.
In surname studies, there is a complicated relationship between pronunciation, orthography and, presumably, the influence of the standardisation conventions of printed text.

With more names discovered, search for other sources, such as military and criminal records, wills, and newspapers.

The final part is to copy the relevant findings into the Data Sheet.

Seed

The seed for this research and discovery starts with his entry on my Family Tree in Ancestry and the core data from Hampshire Genealogical Society (HGS), as stated above.

According to my Ancestry Family Tree, there are a number of people named Charles Penny. Frequently with similar information. The task here is to try and resolve which are relatives and which are not, and where those that are fit in the tree. Who their parents were would be useful to know.

The search of information may be quite wide, with the result, hopefully, that the research could be useful to other people.

This discovery will explore his parents, siblings, and children, as well as himself and his wife.

Penny Surname

Why do we have Parish Records.

Why do we have Parish Records

Act for the Keeping of Parish Registers 1538

As family historians we own a debt of gratitude to Thomas Cromwell, Lord Privy Seal to Henry VIII and Chief Secretary to the King, for the creation of this act in Henry VIII's 29th year of reign. Without it and the subsequent similar act from Queen Elizabeth in 1558, we would not have such extensive records to assist us in our hobbies or professions.

A good précis of the history is found at Family Search, 'History of Parish Registers in England', reproduced in part below.

Medieval - In medieval times there were no parish registers. For some years before the Reformation, monastic houses (especially the smaller ones) the parish priest had been developing the custom of noting in an album or on the margins of the service books, the births and deaths of the leading local families.

1538 - Through the efforts of Thomas Cromwell a mandate was issued by Henry VIII to keep parish registers. This order that every parson, vicar or curate was to enter in a book every wedding, christening and burial in his parish. The parish was to provide a sure coffer with two locks, the parson having the custody of one key, the wardens the others. The entries were to be made each Sunday after the service in the presence of one of the wardens. The mandate was enforced under a penalty of 3 sols, 4 deniers for the repair' of the church. These entries were made on paper, sometimes upon loose sheets. The bishop in their visitations were to see that the names of sponsors were duly entered in the registers of baptism. The parishioners penalty was divided between the poor box and repairs for the church.

1558 - Queen Elizabeth passed another law that was a duplicate of her father's . Many more registers began at this date. Many of these very early records are hard to read plus being written in Latin and are often very sparse - giving only the fathers name at a Christening and only the persons name in a burial entry. The registers were the property of the incumbent minister and each parish was required to maintain a chest in the parish church for the safe keeping of the same. In time other records were kept in the chest such as poor law records, which were actually the civil parish records. Other records kept in the chest were removal orders, bastardy bonds, overseers of the poor accounts, Tithe award and Maps, Enclosure Awards and Maps, Church Wardens Accounts, etc.

1597 - Registers were to be made of parchment instead of paper, and annual reports of all parish register entries were required to be sent to the appropriate bishop, called Church of England Parish Registers (BT). No doubt the reason we have gaps in some of the early parish registers or they do not exist at all, is that the paper had disintegrated and were not available. In some areas earlier registers were destroyed at this time and some were recopied on parchment.

Some ministers made copies for the Bishop as entries were made in the register, some waited until the end of the year to make these copies. Some entries could have been missed. Most often the original parish entry is more complete.

1598 - The entries that were made on paper, sometimes upon loose sheets, and sixty years later these registers were ordered to be copied upon parchment in books, so that the registers which still survive dating back to 1538-1539 (perhaps about 1400 to 1500 in number). Therefore, any parish which survived this date are rarely the original entries. Some of the earliest paper registers had disappeared even before the transcription was ordered.

Records of Anglican baptism.

1731: 4 George 2 c.26: Proceedings in Courts of Justice Act

1731: 4 George 2 c.26: An act that all proceedings in courts of justice within that part of Great Britain called England, and in the court of exchequer in Scotland, shall be in the English language.

[This extended to Wales by 6 Geo. 2. c.14.]

[After 25 March 1733, all proceedings in courts in England, or exchequer in Scotland, to be in English, and in words at length. 6 Geo. 2. c. 6.]

That from and after the twenty-fifth day of March one thousand seven hundred and thirty-three, all writs, process and returns thereof, and proceedings thereon, and all pleadings, rules, orders, indictments, informations, inquisitions, preferments, verdicts, prohibitions, certificates, and all patents, charters, pardons, commissions, records, judgments, statutes, recognizances, bonds, rolls, entries, fines and recoveries, and all proceedings relating thereunto, and all proceedings of courts leet, courts baron and customary courts, and all copies thereof, and all proceedings whatsoever in any courts of justice within that part of Great Britain called England, and in the court of exchequer in Scotland, and which concern the law and administration of justice, shall be in the English tongue and language only, and not in Latin or French, or any other tongue or language whatsoever, and shall be written in such a common legible hand and character, as the acts of parliament are usually ingrossed in, and the lines and words of the same to be written at least as close as the said acts usually are, and not in any hand commonly called court hand, and in words at length and not abbreviated; any law, custom or usage heretofore to the contrary thereof notwithstanding:

This Act is referred to in S.C. Wilks notes the Nursling Register, but may be incorrectly referenced.

However, English was used in the Parish Registers form this date.

1752 - The Gregorian Calendar was adopted and the first day of the year was changed from March 25th (Ladyday) to January 1st. Up to 1752 use double dating between Jan.1st to Mar. 25th.

1753: 26 George 2 c.33: An Act for the Better Preventing of Clandestine Marriage.

Whereas great Mischiefs and Inconveniencies have arisen from Clandestine Marriages; for preventing thereof for the future, Be it enabled by the King’s most Excellent Majesty, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Lords Spiritual and Temporal, and Commons, in this present Parliament assembled, and by the Authority of the same, That from and after the twenty-fifth Day of March in the Year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and fifty-four, all Banns of Matrimony shall be published in an audible manner in the Parish Church, or in some publick Chapel, in which publick Chapel Banns of Matrimony have been usually published, of or belonging to such Parish or Chapelry wherein the Persons to be married shall dwell, according to the Form of Words prescribed by the Rubrick prefixed to the Office of Matrimony in the Book of Common Prayer, upon three Sundays preceding the Solemnization of Marriage, during the Time of Morning Service, or of Evening Service (if there be no Morning Service in such Church or Chapel upon any of those Sundays) immediately after the second Lesson: And whensoever it shall happen that the Persons to be married shall dwell in divers Parishes or Chapelries, the Banns shall in like manner be published in the Church or Chapel belonging to such Parish or Chapelry wherein each of the said Persons shall dwell; and where both or either of the Persons to be married shall dwell in any extraparochial Place, (having no Church or Chapel wherein Banns have been usually published) then the Banns shall in like manner be published in the Parish Church or Chapel belonging to some Parish or Chapelry adjoining to such Extraparochial Place: And where Banns shall be published in any Church or Chapel belonging to any Parish adjoining to such Extraparochial Place, the Parson, Vicar, Minister Curate, publishing such Banns shall, in Writing under his Hand, certify the Publication thereof in such manner as if either of the Persons to be married dwelt in such adjoining Parish; and that all other the Rules prescribed by the said Rubrick concerning the Publication of Banns, and the Solemnization of Matrimony, and not hereby altered, shall be duly observed; and that in all Cases where Banns shall have been published, the Marriage shall be solemnized in one of the Parish Churches or Chapels where such Banns have been published, and in no other Place whatsoever.

...

XIV. And for preventing undue Entries and Abuses in Registers of Marriages; Be it enacted by the Authority aforesaid, That on or before the twenty-fifth Day of March in the Year one-thousand seven hundred and fifty-four, and from Time to Time afterwards as there shall be Occasion, the Church-wardens and Chapel-wardens of every Parish or Chapelry shall provide proper Books of Vellum, or good and durable Paper in which all Marriages and Banns of Marriage respectively, there published or solemnized, shall be registered, and every Page thereof shall be marked at the Top, with the Figure of the Number of every such Page, beginning at the second Leaf with Number-one; and every Leaf or Page so numbered, shall be ruled with Lines at proper and equal Distances from each other, or as near as may be; and all Banns and Marriages published or celebrated in any Church or Chapel, or within any such Parish or Chapelry, shall be respectively entered, registered, printed, or written upon or as near as conveniently may be to such ruled Line , and shall be signed by the Parson, Vicar, Minister or Curate, or by some other Person in his Presence and by his Direction; and such Entries shall be made as aforesaid, on or near such Lines in successive Order, where the Paper is not damaged or decayed, by Accident or Length of Time, until a new Book shall be thought proper or necessary to be provided for the same Purposes, and then the Directions aforesaid shall be observed in every such new Book; and all Books provided as aforesaid shall be deemed to belong to every such Parish or Chapel respectively, and shall be carefully kept and preserved for publick Use.

...

XV. And in order to preserve the Evidence of Marriages, and to make the Proof thereof more certain and easy, and for the Direction of Ministers in the Celebration of Marriages and registering thereof, Be it enacted, That from and after the twenty-fifth Day of March in the Year one thousand seven hundred and fifty-four, all Marriages shall be solemnized in the Presence of two or more credible Witnesses, besides the Minister who shall celebrate the same; and that immediately after the Celebration of every Marriage, an Entry thereof shall he made in such Register to be kept as aforesaid ; in which Entry or Register it shall be expressed, That the said Marriage was celebrated by Banns or Licence; and if both or either of the Parties married by Licence, be under Age, with Consent of the Parents or Guardians, as the Case shall be and shall be signed by the Minister with his proper Addition, and also by the Parties married, and attested by such two Witnesses; which Entry shall be made in the Form or to the Effect following; that is to say

A.B. of [the this] Parish

and C.D. of [the this] Parish

were married in this [Church Chapel] by [Banns Licence] with Consent of [Parents Guardians] this Day of in the Year by me J.J. [Rector Vicar Curate]

This Marriage was solemnized between us A.B. C.D. in the Presence of E.F. G.H.

...

etc.

Without these Acts, there would be little to no records upon which to base our research and discovery.

Discovery

Research and discovery starts with trying to establish the parameters for the research.

Extent of Penny Surname, and variations.

This is part of the process of trying to establish if there are other Penny families in the area, which could confuse matters, and their distribution. By seeing families in the Baptism Register can help eliminate alternative options for residents in Hampshire, of the Church of England. Obliviously this method excludes families without children. It also does not take into account other variables such as change of location. It is just indicative, but helpful.

Baptism Index 1537-1659

HGS Baptisms 1537 to 1659

Sorry, the buttons don't work here. If you find this information useful you can find more about the registers at the Hampshire Genealogical Society shop.

Hampshire Genealogical Society (HGS) Baptism Index 1537 - 1659

Filtered for, All Parishes

Filtered for Surname, Penny

These settings only produced a list of 51 baptisms, in the list below, of which there are two pairs of base born, aka illegitimate babies, reducing the total to 49.

It should be noted that for a lot of Parishes, the end date of 1659, is before or close to the first date of Parish records still in existence. So, the absence of a return for a parish, does not necessarily mean that there were no families of that name in that Parish, just none in the register.

There are seven Parishes in the above list.

The same list, but Grouped by Parish

Rockbourne

Rockbourne was the most Populus in terms of Baptisms with the surname Penny, with a total of 23. With potentially seven different families in Rockbourne Parish. Rockbourne is near Fordingbridge, and is in the New Forest District.

It is about 20 miles, approximately 7 1/2 hours walk, to the next most populous parish, of Eling.

Eling

Ten baptisms recorded in the period, in the Parish of Eling, with the surname Penny. Richard of unknown father, baptised 09 Jun 1577, appears to be of a standalone family. The next family has a father name of Roger with eight children baptised between 13 Aug 1620 and 13 Aug 1654, with the latter having a note of decd, deceased, presumably referring to the father, Roger. Eight children in 34 years.

Although, it could be two families both with the father's name being Roger. That theory would help with the gap between 1628 and 1645. It could be that the Roger baptised on 13 Aug 1620 is the father of the five children, 2 girls, and 3 boys, between 1645 and 1654. There is a burial of a Roger Penny in 1653, which would fit with him being deceased on the baptism of Joseph on 13 Aug 1654.

The third, or fourth, family is in respect of the baseborn son of William Window and Mary Penny, baptised on the 14 Feb 1655/6 and called Valentine.

Parish		Register data
Boldre
Milford
Ringwood
Alverstoke
Martin

Hampshire Genealogical Society (HGS) Baptism Index 1537 - 1659

Filtered for, All Parishes

Filtered for Surname, Penn

To include some variations of the Surname Penny. Over double the number of records found, at 107.

Grouped by, Parent Forename

Forename		Register Data
blank
Agn - Agnes
Ann - Anne
Ant - Anthonie
Ed - Edward
Fr - Franncis Frances
He - Henry
Jo - John
La - Lawrence
Ma - Mary		^{... reputed father a taylor of Southampton.}
Ni - Nicholas
Ral - Ralfe
Ran - Randale
Ric - Richard
Rob - Robert
Rog - Roger
Tho - Thomas
Wi - William

The earliest record for this criteria is 20 Mar 1538/9, a son born to Thomas and Clare Penn of the Parish of Odiham, named Nicolas.

The earliest full Penny record for this is 09 Jun 1577, a son born to (blank) Penny of the Parish of Eling, named Richard.

Baptism Index 1660-1751

Baptism Index 1752-1812

Marriage Index 1538-1659

HGS Marriages 1538 - 1660

Hampshire Genealogical Society (HGS) Marriage Index 1538 - 1660

Filtered for, All Parishes

Filtered for Surname, Penny - Bride and Groom

These settings only produced a list of 14 marriages, with the brides name being Penny, plus 2 Pennye, none Penney, and one Pennycott. For the groom there were only 9 named Penny, with no extras.

That is only 25 marriages for Penny, Pennye or Penney, both bride and groom in 123 years. About 2 weddings per decade on average across the period.

It should be noted that for a lot of Parishes, the end date of 1660, is before or close to the first date of Parish records still in existence. So, the absence of a return for a parish, does not necessarily mean that there were no families of that name in that Parish, just none in the register.

Bride Filtered for Surname, Penny

Groom Filtered for Surname, Penny

Bride Filtered for Surname, Penn*

Groom Filtered for Surname, Penn*

I don't currently propose to do further analysis of the lists in the way that I have done for baptisms for this period as the length of the marriage lists are comparatively short.

The largest population density appears to be in the parish of Rockbourne, with some fanning out from that centre, together with some further afield isolated instances.

The earliest records here are for the bride 29 Sep 1574, in the parish of Rockbourne, Marie Penneye married Anthonie Holloweye.

The earliest records here are for the groom 06 Dec 1582, in the parish of Rockbourne, Edward Penney married Marie Stronge.

I will add both these records to my Ancestry Tree to see if I can develop families from there.

Rockbourne

Parish of Rockbourne Hampshire

Rochesburna (xi cent.); Rechesburna, Rochesburna (xii cent.); Rokeburn (xiii cent.); Rogborne (xvii cent.). Rockbourne contains about 3,923½ acres, of which 2,029 acres are arable land, 1,039½ acres permanent grass and 302¼ acres woods and plantations. (fn. 1) Rockbourne Down, in the north-west of the parish, and Knoll Down, which extends over the borders of Damerham, are in some places over 300 ft. high. The lowest part of the parish is along the banks of the little stream known as Sweatfords Water, which rises in Rockbourne Down and flows straight through the village by the side of the main street. The soil is sand, clay, gravel and chalk on a subsoil of chalk.

NLS OS 1" Hills Old Map Rockbourne Hampshire

I have added annotation to the map regarding the towns of Salisbury, Winchester, and Southampton, to aid visual location finding.

Rockbourne is approximately three miles NNW of Fordingbridge in the New Forest.

NLS OS 25" Old Map Rockbourne Hampshire - Hampshire and Isle of Wight LIV.10 Revised: 1908, Published: 1909

NLS OS 25" Old Map Manor Farm Rockbourne Hampshire - Hampshire and Isle of Wight LIV.10 Revised: 1908, Published: 1909

It appears that there was a Monastery at Rockbourne at one time. The rectory seems to be as big as the St. Andrew's Church, so presumably there was a good living to be had by the Rector in this very rural community.

Sweatfords Water flows through Rockbourne village, broadly in line with the main road. It is a tributary of the River Avon, which it joins at Fordingbridge.

A little South of Rockbourne village lies West Park country house. Unfortunately, the house was demolished in 1948 following damage sustained during WWII. Further information about the estate can be seen on Hampshire County Council site. According to British History Online, West Park was the property of Sir Eyre Coote. The park extends into South Damerham parish.

The village consists chiefly of one street almost half a mile long. The church is in the north-east of the main street Close to the church, adjoining the north side of the churchyard, is a very interesting group of buildings, consisting of a small L-shaped 14th-century house, now used as part of a modern farm-house, the remains of a large Elizabethan or Jacobean house a short distance to the east, a 13th-century chapel near its south-east angle, and a large 15th-century barn running northward from the chapel. The barn has two large waggon-porches, and at the north end has been divided into two stories for use as living rooms; the chapel is now used as a barn, and its most interesting feature is a north doorway with a cinquefoiled head. The buildings are doubtless manorial, the story of the existence of a leper hospital on the site being quite unfounded.

There is evidence of Roman occupation in the area, and Rockbourne was mentioned in the Domesday Book of 1086.

Rockbourne
Land of King William

Households
Households: 4 villagers. 20 smallholders.
Land and resources
Ploughland: 2 lord's plough teams. 3 men's plough teams.
Other resources: Meadow 3 acres.
Owners
Tenant-in-chief in 1086: King William.
Lord in 1086: King William.
Lord in 1066: King Edward.

Marriage Index 1660-1753

Marriage Index 1754-1837

Parish Registers

Moving on from an overview of the Register to a detailed look at the contents, on a journey of discovery for Baptisms, Marriages, and Burials, and perhaps a few other things on the way. Hoping to find validation regarding people in my Ancestry Family Tree, and perhaps some additional information / people.

List of Rectors & Vicars

A spectacular find. Click on image to go to source.

Nursling

Eling

These lists are so helpful. In the past I would look through the Parish Register for information to create a list, or go to some of the sources at the top of the image. This is so much easier, just look the parish up, and there is the list. I recognise some of the names from the Marriage Certificates.

Top of Tabs

Baptism

Nursling 1617 to 1735

Baptisms in the Nursling Parish Register 1617 to 1735

The first interest in this registry is looking for the Baptism of William Mabey or variations of that spelling. The reason for reviewing these particular years is the Burial record of a William Mayby.

Burials, 1795

April 14 William Mayby aged 63 years

Form his stated age at burial it would suggest a birth of around 1732.

The range of search shown below is 1730 to 1735. Remember that until 1752 the beginning of the New Year was 25 March (Lady Day, the Feast of the Annunciation). This is evident in the pages below.

As far as I can see there are only four boys baptised William in the Parish of Nursling between the years 1730 to 1735 inclusive. None of them to a Mabey of similar family.

The search will have to be widened.

Nursling 1736 to 1797

Baptisms in the Nursling Parish Register 1736 to 1797

Baptised at Nursling Parish Church, St Boniface.

Looking in the relevant Parish Registers first, starting with Nursling, Hampshire.

I did a page turn of the Register images looking for any entries with the surname Mabey, aided by the HGS Baptism Index shown above.

Looking through other registers there are a lot of babies privately baptised because they are weak or sick who are taken into the "Congregation of Xt's Flock", "Congregation of Christ's Flock", or "buried on", all in the same entry.

There are a number of recognisable family names within the early pages, which may or may not be related, but it is not until 17?? that I came across the Baptism of a Mabey.

Before listing the finds in the Mabey family, lets look at the Long family.

This is to establish a presence of the Long family in the parish of Nursling, which may help explain the addition of a Mabey family to Nursling parish. Where did William Mabey move from when he married Ann Long in St Boniface Church in Nursling?

Mary, Daughter of Nathaniel & Rebeccah Long

10. Mary, Daugh^r. of Nathaniel & Rebeccah Long.

July 10, 1740 Mary, Daughter of Nathaniel & Rebeccah Long.

This register only started in 1736 and this is page 3, with the page numbers added later in pencil by S. C. Wilks.

Note two other sad entries on this page, '... privately baptised & both soon after died' and '... privately baptised and died after some few days.' Checks in burials may possibly include the mother. Child birth was a particularly difficult and hazardous event in these times.

Ann, Daughter of Nathaniel & Rebeccah Long

Oct: 9. Ann, Daugh^r. of Nathaniel & Rebeccah Long.

Oct: 9, 1741. Ann, Daughter of Nathaniel & Rebeccah Long.

Potentially, this Ann Long is the mother of John Mabey. Look to marriages section to find William Mabey married to Ann Long.

Susan, Daughter, of Nathaniel, & Rebeccah Long

Apr 22 Susan, Daugh^r, of Nathaniel, & Rebeccah Long P.ly

Will^m Kelsey admitted into y^e Congregation May 14, & Susan Long the 25^th

Apr 22 1744 Susan, Daughter, of Nathaniel, & Rebeccah Long Baptised Privately. William Kelsey admitted into the Congregation May 14, & Susan Long the May 25^th

Again, not a Mabey for this baptism record. However, it is another Long, the significance of which will hopefully become apparent later. Also it is an example of Baptised Privately and subsequently admitted into the Congregation / Church.

Nathan, Richard, & Phebe Sons and Daughter of Nathan & Rebecca Long

July 20 Nathan Richard & Phebe Sons and Daughter of Nathan & Rebecca Long

July 20 1749 Nathan, Richard, & Phebe Sons and Daughter of Nathan & Rebecca Long

A job lot? Susan Long, above, was Baptised on Apr 22 1744, approximately 5 years before this Baptism. Which is sufficient time for 3 separate pregnancies giving rise to 3 children being baptised at the same time. It could be triplets, or twins and a single, but the is sufficient time interval for it to be three individual births between 1745 and 1749.

John Son of Nathan & Rebecca Long

Jan 28 John S. of Nathan & Rebecca Long

Jan 28 1758 John Son of Nathan & Rebecca Long

On this page there is also the baptism of Catharine, daughter of Edmund and Martha Morris, the Rector of this parish, and his wife.

Collection of 'Long' baptisms in the Parish of Nursling, identified above
Baptism date	Child name	S/D	Parents
July 10, 1740	Mary Long	D	Nathaniel & Rebeccah Long.
Oct: 9, 1741	Ann Long	D	Nathaniel & Rebeccah Long.
Apr 22, 1744	Susan Long	D	Nathaniel, & Rebeccah Long
July 20, 1749	Nathan Long	S	Nathan & Rebecca Long
July 20, 1749	Richard Long	S	Nathan & Rebecca Long
July 20, 1749	Phebe Long	D	Nathan & Rebecca Long
Jan 28 1758	John Long	S	Nathan & Rebecca Long

Seven children in 18 years, is not implausible, nor is the gaps between them, albeit three baptised at the same time. I have given those three estimated years of birth between 1745 and 1749. However, is this one family or two. Parents are Nathaniel, & Rebeccah Long until 1744 and then at the next baptism, in 1749, they are Nathan & Rebecca Long. Very similar names, but are the people one in the same? On the basis of probability, I will go with the thought that it is all one family, but I accept that is not definitive.

I think there is sufficient evidence to confirm that there is an established presence of a Long family in the Parish of Nursling.

Now on to the Mabey surname.

Martha Daughter of William & Mary Maby

Aug 1 Martha D of Will^m & Mary Maby

Aug 1, 1761 Martha Daughter of William & Mary Maby

Maby is not Mabey but is similar.

William Mabey and Ann Long were married at St Boniface Church, Nursling, Hampshire on 29 October 1760. So 1st August 1761 is a respectable date of first born after marriage.

However, who is Mary? William married Ann, not Mary. Is Mary an alternative name for Ann, such as Mary Ann, or Ann Mary. Not according to the baptism record.

Susan Daughter of William & Anne Maby

May 4 Susan. D. of Will^m & Anne Maby

May 4, 1764 Susan Daughter of William & Anne Maby

Again, Maby is not Mabey but is similar.

At least the parents are the expected William and Ann.

1768

Ann Daughter of James Penny

Ann the Daughter of James Penny was baptised February vii - 7th Feb 1768, was baptised at St Boniface Church Nursling.

1768

Joseph Son of William & Anne Mabey

Sep 12 Joseph. S, of Will^m. & Anne Mabey

Sep 12, 1768, Joseph Son of William & Anne Mabey.

1771

John Son of William & Anne Mabey

Jan 17 Jno S of William & Anne Mabey

Jan 17, 1771 John Son of William & Anne Mabey

1773

Richard Son of William & Anne Mabey

May 31 Rich^d S. of W^m & Anne Mabey

May 31, 1773 Richard Son of William & Anne Mabey

1775

John, Son of John & Sarah Penny

I have copied both pages of the register for 1775 here, looking for John Penny. For the whole year of 1775 there are only two baptisms with male names beginning with J,

June 6 J^no S. of James & Eliz. Gateril

June 18^th John, Son of John & Sarah Penny

The next record is Milly, shown below

1775

Milly Daughter of William & Ann Mabey

Aug 30 Milly, D. of Will^m & Ann Mabey

Aug 30, 1775 Milly Daughter of William & Ann Mabey

1778

Mary Daughter of William and Ann Mabey

Feb 15 Mary Daughter of William and Ann Mabey

Feb 15, 1778 Mary Daughter of William and Ann Mabey

1780

Susan Daughter of William & Ann Mabey

Sep 17 Susan, D. of William & Ann Mabey

Sep 17, 1780 Susan Daughter of William & Ann Mabey

Second use of the name Susan in this family, which implies the first Susan died before this year.

1782

Elizabeth Daughter of William & Anne Maybe

Nov^r 17. Elizabeth Daughter of William & Anne Maybe

Nov 17, 1782 Elizabeth Daughter of William & Anne Maybe

Note surname written as Maybe not Mabey. Assumed to be the same family.

Another copy within the same Register, fortunately with the same information.

Charlotte Mabey

The above is a extract from the Maybee Society regarding Charlotte Mabey b. 1781.

However, so far, I have not found any primary data in respect of Charlotte.

The above is the page for the Parish of Nursling Register in the Baptised section, for 1781. There is no entry for a Charlotte on this page.

The Hampshire Genealogical Society (HGS) Baptism Index 1752 -1812 did not reveal any potential matches, across Hampshire.

The last entry for Baptisms in this section of the Registry is page 36 for the year 1787. No Mabey family found from Elizabeth in 1782 to 1787.

1797

George Son of John & Mary Maybey

April 23 George S. of John & Mary Maybey

Apr 23, 1797 George Son of John & Mary Maybey

Collection of 'Mabey' baptisms in the Parish of Nursling, identified above - Uncertain
Baptism date	Child name	S/D	Parents
Aug 1, 1761	Martha Maby	D	William & Mary Maby
Abt. 1762	William Mabey	S
Abt. 1781	Charlotte Mabey	D
Apr 23, 1797	George Maybey	S	John & Mary Maybey

The three people above are thought to be part of the family according to other Ancestry trees, however, they are not yet proved from the baptism records found so far. The fourth is possibly a grandchild.

Collection of 'Mabey' baptisms in the Parish of Nursling, identified above
Baptism date	Child name	S/D	Parents
May 4, 1764	Susan Maby	D	William & Anne Maby
Sep 12, 1768	Joseph Mabey	S	William & Anne Mabey
Jan 17 1771	John Mabey	S	William & Anne Mabey
May 31, 1773	Richard Mabey	S	William & Anne Mabey
Aug 30, 1775	Milly Mabey	D	William & Ann Mabey
Feb 15, 1778	Mary Mabey	D	William and Ann Mabey
Sep 17, 1780	Susan Mabey	D	William & Ann Mabey
Nov 17, 1782	Elizabeth Maybe	D	William & Anne Maybe

Eight children in 18 years, is not implausible. Even eleven, adding the uncertain children, is still plausible both in terms of elapsed date and separation of dates.

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Nursling 1798 to 1812

Eling 1672 to 1749

Baptisms in the Eling Parish Register 1672 to 1749

Baptised at Eling Parish Church, St Mary the Virgin, aka St Mary's Church.

Following a similar search in the Nursling Parish Register, without result, it is time to turn attention to the Parish of Eling, Hampshire. General searches of numerous datasets of Parish Records and Bishop's Transcripts have not reveled suitable matches. This could be because of errors in transcription, the variable nature of spelling at the time, or the state of the records, missing or difficult to render a reliable transcription.

The reason for looking in Eling next is some information about his father from Rodney Whale.

Notes: William MABY-245

General: This spelling was as baptised.
Was living in Botley, Hants and moved to Eling. He was examined by the Overseers of the Poor and because he had no settlement certificate he was returned to Botley. However a year later he returned to Eling bearing the certificate and was allowed to settle.
His origins are obscure but he was almost certainly from Dorset. He appears in Swanage for a short while, where his first child was baptised in 1726 and his first wife was buried there in 1731. There is a marriage of a Bernard Mabey in Swanage around this time and he may have been William's brother particularly as William named a son as Bernard.
This information was added to in September 2010 by virtue of his baptism being discovered.
The settlement certificate for Botley is dated 19091738 and one of the Overseers of the poor was Jacob Emery, an ancestor of Beryl Whale nee Sharp.
The Removal Order mentioned was dated 03021737.

The first interest in this Eling registry is looking for the Baptism of William Mabey or variations of that spelling. The reason for reviewing these particular years is the Burial record of a William Mayby.

Burials, 1795

April 14 William Mayby aged 63 years

Form his stated age at burial it would suggest a birth of around 1732.

The range of search shown below is 1730 to 1735. Remember that until 1752 the beginning of the New Year was 25 March (Lady Day, the Feast of the Annunciation). This is evident in the pages below.

1730

Following the location of three relevant baptisms, I am reviewing these images again looking for the shape of the surname.

The last line but one reveals:-

Sarah the daughter of George Meabyee was Baptised September iv. Baptised 4^th September 1730 in St. Mary the Virgin Church, Eling.

However, an alternative direction of travel is a Marriage Certificate for a Sarah Meatyar.

Not here, but on my work in progress tree, I have added George Meabyee, annotated hypothesis, as a brother of William Mabey, b. 1705, the father of William Mabey b. 1734, the person whose Baptism record we are searching for.

I have split the page into three parts to ensure that the writing is large enough for you to be able to read it, and find something that I have missed. There will therefore be some duplication at the joints.

You can see that there are a lot more baptisms in a year than in Nursling, as to be expected, Eling is larger both by area and population.

As you can see, the page gets very difficult to read towards the bottom. I can fully understand why this was not transcribed, as that would produce unreliable data.

However, I believe I can make out enough to search for a name of William for the baptised person, and an M for the beginning of the father's surname.

Fortunately, Ancestry, as well as some other sites, has the ability to invert the colours of the image, in the tools section. Sometimes this can make the image more legible. Not always sufficient to transcribe though, and I doubt the original transcribers had this technique available to them.

1731

Below, the sixth record from the top reveals:-

Andrew the Son of Joseph Meabyee was Baptised April vii. Baptised 7^th April 1731 in St. Mary the Virgin Church, Eling.

However, an alternative direction of travel is a Marriage Certificate for a Sarah Meatyar, but no similar alternative for Andrew.

Not here, but on my work in progress tree, I have added Joseph Meabyee, annotated hypothesis, as a brother of William Mabey, b. 1705, the father of William Mabey b. 1734, the person whose Baptism record we are searching for.

1732

Another possible, four records down from the top of the last section; Christian the daughter of George M???? was baptised July xxvi. July 26th 1732 baptised at St Mary the Virgin Church, Eling. An unusual name for a daughter. Not transcribed in Ancestry.

Yellow dots, instead of a light wash to highlight, so as to not obscure the writing on the Registry page. Ann the daughter of William Meabee Baptised January vi. Baptised 6^th January 1732 in St. Mary the Virgin Church, Eling.

1733

1734

William the Son of William Maebee was Bapt. March xxxi. Baptised 31^st March 1734 in St. Mary the Virgin Church, Eling.

The blue dot is just to highlight the use of a capital M, in a word recognisable as Mary, for comparison with Maebee, which is much less certain.

1735

Mary the daughter of William Maebee was Baptised March viii. Baptised 8^th March 1735 in St. Mary the Virgin Church, Eling.

1736 Part only

Bernard the Son of William Meabe was Baptised March i. Baptised on 1st March 1736 at St Mary the Virgin Church, Eling, Hampshire.

1738

Ann the Daughter of Robert & Ann Eldridge

Ann the Daughter of Robert & Ann Eldridge was baptised October xxxi - 31st October 1738, baptised at St Mary the Virgin Church, Eling, Hampshire.

The baptism record above Ann, is also interesting, Robert Brown of about 17 Years of Age (his Parents being Quakers) was bap: Oct. xxi. Further confirms that older children may have their age shown, and sometimes annotated with a reason for late baptism.

Eling 1750 to 1798

Baptisms in the Eling Parish Register 1750 to 1798

Baptised at Eling Parish Church, St Mary the Virgin, aka St Mary's Church.

A reminder that until 1752 the beginning of the New Year was 25 March (Lady Day, the Feast of the Annunciation). This is evident in the pages below.

1750

Thomas the Son of John & Elizabeth Penny

Thomas the Son of John & Elizabeth Penny was baptised July xiii - 13th July 1750, baptised at St Mary the Virgin Church, Eling, Hampshire.

Not particularly relevant, just the same surname.

However, it does provide some evidence of Penny family or families in the Parish of Eling, at least from 1750.

1759

Ann Daughter of William and Mary Eldridge

Ann Daughter of William and Mary Eldridge was baptized July xv - 15th July 1759, baptised at St Mary the Virgin Church, Eling, Hampshire.

List of Rectors & Vicars

A spectacular find. Click on image to go to source.

This list is so helpful. In the past I would look through the Parish Register for information to create a list, or go to some of the sources at the top of the image. This is so much easier, just look the parish up, and there is the list. I recognise some of the names from the Marriage Certificates.

Why have I put this here? Well some of the Ancestry Trees have some of the Penny family being born at The Vicarage, Eling Hill, Eling, Hampshire. Which is the correct address for the vicarage of St Mary's, aka St Mary the Virgin Church.

It does not appear that the Penny family are the rector or vicar of the parish, but that does not make the information incorrect. They could be part of the domestic or gardening / farming team.

1772

George the Son of William & Ann Penny

George the Son of William & Ann Penny was baptised May vi. - 6^th May 1772 baptised at St Mary the Virgin Church, Eling.

A Penny family found in Eling, just not the one looked for.

1776

Joseph & Mary Son & Daughter of James & Ann Peny

Joseph & Mary Son & Daughter of James & Ann Peny was baptised Nov^r iii - 3^rd November 1776 baptised at St Mary the Virgin Church, Eling.

I believe Mary is the person I was looking for. She becomes John Mabey's wife.

I think Peny and Penny are the same families.

Eling Parish Register

1790

William Son of William and Mary Mabey

William Son of William & Mary Mabey [or Mobey] 20

20 Jan, 1790 William Son of William & Mary Mabey

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Marriage

Before we get into the registers ...

Marriage, a snippet of information

In 1780, the minimum legal age for marriage was 12 years for women and 14 years for men. It was also possible for the couple to get engaged at the age of 7, with the right to break off the engagement on reaching the minimum age of consent. However, early marriages were rather rare, and the average age of the newlyweds was about 25 years.

An extract from a Royal Historical Society article.

Nursling 1736 to 1797

Marriages in the Nursling Parish Register 1736 to 1797

William Maby to Anne Long

The marriages in this book from pencil page 42 to pencil page 48 seem to be abridged from the fuller book as ordered by Act of George II . S.C. Wilks Feb. 1854.

1760 Oct 29 William Maby to Ann Long

1760
No 9
Banns of Marriage between		William Maby
	and	Anne Long
were published on the three Sundays underwritten:
That is to say,	On Sunday,	the 12	)
	On Sunday,	the 19	}	October	by Ed. Morris Rector
	On Sunday,	the 26	)

1760
No. 11
	William Maby of this Parish Batchelor
	and
	Anne Long Spinster of this parish
	were Married in this Church by	Banns this	29 Day of October in the Year One Thousand seven Hundred and Sixty	by me	Ed: Morris	Rector

	This Marriage was solemnized between us		William Mybe
			Mark x of Anne Long

	In the Presence of		John Grove
			Elizabeth Fillere

	29 Oct 1760

John Grove is the witness to a number of these marriages which suggests that he may be a clerk or a churchwarden as opposed to a relative.

John Mathews to Mary Long

No entry in the Banns Register between 1762 and 1767 inclusive. Also records no 12 and 13 are blank.

1763
No. 20
	John Mathews of the Parish of Rumsey [Romsey]
	and
	Mary Long of this parish
	were Married in this Church by	Banns this	28 Day of February in the Year One Thousand Seven Hundred and Sixty three	by me	P. Smith	Curate of Eling.

	This Marriage was solemnized between us		John Mathew's Mark -----
			Mary Long's Mark

	In the Presence of		Charles Waunner
			William Maybe

	28 Feb 1763

Oh, for all writing to be as clear as the Curates! I would still transcribe the data even though it is not necessary to read it, but doing so makes it searchable.

Nathan Long to Mary Powel

1768
No. 59
	Nathan Long of this Parish Widower
	and
	Mary Powel Widow
	were Married in this Church by	Licence this	Eleventh Day of Sepbr. in the Year One Thousand seven Hundred and Sixty Eight	by me	Edm^d Morris	Rector

	This Marriage was solemnized between us		Mark of \ Nathan Long
			Mark of + of Mary Powel

	In the Presence of		Thomas Richards
			William Irvine

	11 Sept 1768

John Osman to Sarah Maybey

1784
No 33
Banns of Marriage between		John Oasman
	and	Sarah Maybe			both of this parish
were published on the three Sundays underwritten:
That is to say,	On Sunday,	the seventeenth	day of	October
	On Sunday,	the twenty fourth	day of	October	by me S. J. Collins
	On Sunday,	the thirty first	day of	October 1784	Curate

1784
No. 84
	John Osman of this Parish Batchelor
	and
	Sarah Maybey of the same, Spinster
	were Married in this Church by	Banns this	second Day of November in the Year One Thousand seven Hundred and Eighty four	by me	Ed: Morris	Rector

	This Marriage was solemnized between us		+ the Mark of John Osman
			+ the Mark of Sarah Maybey

	In the Presence of		+ the Mark of John Hicks
			Tho^s Richards

	2 Nov 1784

John Maybe to Mary Penny

Banns are from Nursling and therefore included here, as well as the Marriage recorded in Eling Parish Register and Bishops Transcripts. All kept together for clarity.

1794
No 54
Banns of Marriage between		John Maybe			of this parish
	and	Mary Penny			of the parish of Eling
were published on the three Sundays underwritten:
That is to say,	On Sunday,	the 16th of Feby	1794	by me S. J. Collins	Curate
	On Sunday,	the 23d of Feby	1794	by me S. J. Collins	Curate
	On Sunday,	the 2d of March	1794	by me S. J. Collins	Curate

The Bride is from the Parish of Eling, so unsurprisingly, the marriage took place in Eling.

The first entry on this page, no. 408, is copied here just because John Mebey signed as a witness. The signature looks to be the same for his own wedding, so perhaps it has no other significance than he was presence for both weddings, on the third of March and could write.

1794
No. 409
	John Mebey Batchelor of the Parish of Nursling
	and
	Mary Penny of this parish Spinster
	were Married in this Church by	Banns this	Third Day of March in the Year One Thousand seven Hundred and Ninety Four	by me	Charles Sloman	Curate

	This Marriage was solemnized between us		John Mebey
			Mark + of Mary Penny

	In the Presence of		Philip Stride
			Thomas Bessant

	3 Mar 1794

The associated Bishop's Transcripts, also for Eling

John Goff to Mary Maybey

1796
No. 124
	John Goff of this Parish Batchelor
	and
	Mary Maybey of this parish Spinster
	were Married in this Church by	Banns this	Second Day of February in the Year One Thousand seven Hundred and Ninety Six	by me	S. J. Collins	Curate

	This Marriage was solemnized between us		Mark x of John Goff
			Mark x of Mary Maybey

	In the Presence of		John Mebey
			Mark x of Sarah Osbourne
			Thom^s Richards
	2 Feb 1796

John Goff [or is this Goss]

sssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

1760
No. 11
	his name of this Parish Batchelor
	and
	her name Spinster of this parish
	were Married in this Church by	Banns this	29 Day of October in the Year One Thousand seven Hundred and Sixty	by me	Ed: Morris	Rector

	This Marriage was solemnized between us		William Mybe
			Mark x of Anne Long

	In the Presence of		John Grove
			Elizabeth Fillere

	29 Oct 1760